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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Ockham said:
You know it's also possible but that's been my point the entire time - you don't have the facts, these illegals didn't bring copies of their vaccination history. Easy.
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And neither do tourists from France or China or Brazil...

It tells us as much as your CDC links tell us, I guess according to you also nothing.
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No, the CDC lists the know ground zero patients, and where they were from. I posted the link.

At least be accurate; you made an accusation and built up data that fits your opinion. That's not the same as found facts and forming an opinion.
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LOL - I'm asking for data showing illegals were the ground zero patients. So far that data hasn't been produced. That's the facts I've used to form and reinforce my opinion that blaming it on illegals is veering into straight up bigotry.

Given the amount of basic information you don't have and that you don't WANT to have because it may contradict your opinion, I can see why. Ridicule that which you do not understand.
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The CDC provides the data I want to have - who is the ground zero patient. It they were all from Guatemala, I'd form a different opinion about the source of the outbreaks. That NONE are from Guatemala that we know of tells me illegals aren't the problem. But if you asked me - should we make a concerted effort to get children of undocumented workers vaccinated - yes. Provide them free at the local clinic to them and other poor residents.

It's about logic and facts - you right saying the burden of facts we don't know is almost impossible in the public domain. What we maybe can agree on is there are no absolutes in this debate - could illegals have brought disease into the US? Sure. Could US citizens have done the same by refusing vaccinations? Sure.
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No matter who brought it in - and it WAS travelers from at least 18 different countries in the first five months of 2014 - U.S. citizens refusing to vaccinate allow the disease to take hold and spread. The Amish don't vaccinate, so the disease spread quickly throughout the entire community. A similar community in Alabama wouldn't CARE (at least as much) that a measles patient showed up at the county fair because almost all of them are vaccinated and immune. If anyone caught it, it would end there most likely - a handful of cases at most, not hundreds.
 
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Ockham said:
I'm sure there are many. Logic dictates if non-immigrants can cause an outbreak then immigrants could also start an outbreak.
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Of course they could. But how is that relevant to the idea that those of us in the US should get vaccinated? Regardless of where it comes from, it sucks. If we were all vaccinated, we wouldn't have to worry about tourists, overseas travelers, missionaries, or immigrants.

I don't know why you are so intent on getting everyone to say "sure, it could come from illegal immigrants". It could come from ANYONE coming from overseas, whether travellers or tourists or immigrants.

So why do you keep hammering on it?

Key thing is - everyone who doesn't have a medical issue should be vaccinated. Period.
 
"I do not believe we will get real information until after The Insane One is forced out of office or ends his reign of error. Keep your head buried in the sand and continue to blame your neighbor.

Deep down in the dark recesses of your heart you know I am right."
beefheart said:
So, you don't have an answer other than your hatred for Mexicans and the president. I don't have dark recesses of my heart, I don't harbor obsessive hate of the president, nor do I use him as an excuse to blame my current state in life upon.
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I have given you an answer. You don't like it.

What makes you think I am speaking of Mexicans? I am speaking of invaders. They come from a wide variety of countries. And they are attacking us. They attack us with diseases, with crime, by displacing Americans in jobs, by destroying our economy through welfare and medical care.

If you do not hate this treasonous monster in the White House you are not paying attention. Or worse you are secretly as treasonous as he is. I cannot speak to your current state in life. I can speak to the state of the nation and we are in very deep trouble.
 
beefheart said:
It is funny to read, but you have to remember that the fringe is a tiny sliver of the population.
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Cool. Those who actually support and defend the Constitution against its domestic enemies are the fringe to you. I am right about you.
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

JasperL said:
What's so bizarrely funny is here are rough numbers:

Bush - 500,000 per year, roughly 4 million new illegal aliens in total
Obama - 0 per year, roughly negative 500,000 new illegal aliens in total

And through your insanely partisan lens, conclude it's Obama's fault.... It's ODS at it's finest.
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While cute it is irrelevant. First your numbers are lies. And you have to know they are lies. Secondly, it was The Insane One and his regime that invited in his Illegal Million Aliens and dispersed them across the country. This was in the last two years. They brought diseases that are common to their origins. And American children are dying of those diseases.
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

"When you delight in bringing in illegal aliens to supplant American citizens you reveal the evil in your heart and the Democratic Party's strategy to achieve one party, Soviet style rule.

It is pure evil."
Declan said:
American citizens are immigrants or the children thereof. They wouldn't be illegal if we brought them here legally. Mexican =/= illegal
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This is the kind of idiocy I have learned to expect from the authoritarian statists who post here. There is not much else to say.
 
Misterveritis said:
"I do not believe we will get real information until after The Insane One is forced out of office or ends his reign of error. Keep your head buried in the sand and continue to blame your neighbor.

Deep down in the dark recesses of your heart you know I am right."

I have given you an answer. You don't like it.

What makes you think I am speaking of Mexicans? I am speaking of invaders. They come from a wide variety of countries. And they are attacking us. They attack us with diseases, with crime, by displacing Americans in jobs, by destroying our economy through welfare and medical care.

If you do not hate this treasonous monster in the White House you are not paying attention. Or worse you are secretly as treasonous as he is. I cannot speak to your current state in life. I can speak to the state of the nation and we are in very deep trouble.
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You might have some credibility if you recognized when these "invaders" actually came to America, but your blind partisanship won't allow that. 12 million before Obama took office - roughly zero since then.

FWIW, I can only assume that if you were in the shoes of these "invaders," you'd make the same choice they did - walk over as invited, work, take care of their families. I'd be embarrassed as a father or husband to tell my family that I won't do what I can to give them the best life possible and so will not cross the border and find a job that will support them, and often an extended family left at home.
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

Misterveritis said:
While cute it is irrelevant. First your numbers are lies. And you have to know they are lies. Secondly, it was The Insane One and his regime that invited in his Illegal Million Aliens and dispersed them across the country. This was in the last two years. They brought diseases that are common to their origins. And American children are dying of those diseases.
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LMAO. Facts really are optional in your world. :shock:

But just for grins, can you post any links to back up any of that?

I'll say it again, we're in Poe's Law territory with these latest comments.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Immunization, measles (% of children ages 12-23 months) | Data | Table From 2012 to 2013 it went from 99% to 89% It fluctuates within that range. Their immunization rate is a tad higher than ours, so it's complete ignorance to blame them brown skinned messicans. Blame the idiot parents who aren't vaccinating their kids.
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Are you another who believes the poorest of the poor from Guatemala were vaccinated against all of the common diseases of their origin states? Perhaps you should question all of the evidence of your own complete ignorance. In the absence of the diseased would it matter of not everyone vaccinated their children? The Insane One brought them here. He did not even need Gruber to lie to his base. Did he?
 
JasperL said:
Do what you want. Here's the link Vectors or Victims? Docs Slam Rumors That Migrants Carry Disease - NBC News

It last cited in post 1051 on this thread. You were post 1053 so I'm surprised you missed it.
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No one missed anything other than you. You cite a leftist support piece from 2009 and believe you have found "The Truth".

Bottom line is the person I responded to made a baseless claim - that it's illegals spreading disease and being unleashed in his community. If he or you want to claim it's a flood of diseased invaders spreading disease in these helpless communities, which is what I was responding to, then prove it.
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Can you show me the health records of The Insane One's Million Illegal Aliens from 2013-2014? Can you provide me with a comprehensive map of the communities The Insane One's regime planted these time bombs within? Can you give me a breakdown of the countries of origins, the ages of the invaders and any correlations between the arrival of the enemy invaders and outbreaks of once conquered diseases?

It is hardly a baseless claim. Illegal aliens come from places where these diseases are common. The illegal invaders are the least likely to have received vaccinations. They come from the poorest, most ignorant parts of their societies. But you already know that. Don't you?
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

JasperL said:
About what? The numbers of illegals? If so then read the thread - it's been posted, as recently as this morning.

But in case your Google doesn't work, try this: As Growth Stalls, Unauthorized Immigrant Population Becomes More Settled | Pew Research Center's Hispanic Trends Project

View attachment 67180090

Point out for me the Obama flood of dirty, diseased invading children...
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Were you asleep through 2013 and 2014? You were, weren't you?

By S.A. Miller - The Washington Times - Tuesday, July 29, 2014
The Obama administration is concealing key details about its response to the surge of unaccompanied children illegally crossing the southern border, including where the unaccompanied minors are being sheltered and the circumstances under which some are set free inside the U.S.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill say the lack of information has handicapped their push to pass legislation to gain a handle on the surge — a debate taking place this week in both chambers.​

Has this changed in the last six months? Where are The Insane One's Million Illegal Aliens?
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

Misterveritis said:
Were you asleep through 2013 and 2014? You were, weren't you?

By S.A. Miller - The Washington Times - Tuesday, July 29, 2014
The Obama administration is concealing key details about its response to the surge of unaccompanied children illegally crossing the southern border, including where the unaccompanied minors are being sheltered and the circumstances under which some are set free inside the U.S.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill say the lack of information has handicapped their push to pass legislation to gain a handle on the surge — a debate taking place this week in both chambers.​

Has this changed in the last six months? Where are The Insane One's Million Illegal Aliens?
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LOL - no data, as I suspected. You are predictable, I'll give you that!
 
JasperL said:
And neither do tourists from France or China or Brazil...



No, the CDC lists the know ground zero patients, and where they were from. I posted the link.



LOL - I'm asking for data showing illegals were the ground zero patients. So far that data hasn't been produced. That's the facts I've used to form and reinforce my opinion that blaming it on illegals is veering into straight up bigotry.

The CDC provides the data I want to have - who is the ground zero patient. It they were all from Guatemala, I'd form a different opinion about the source of the outbreaks. That NONE are from Guatemala that we know of tells me illegals aren't the problem. But if you asked me - should we make a concerted effort to get children of undocumented workers vaccinated - yes. Provide them free at the local clinic to them and other poor residents.

No matter who brought it in - and it WAS travelers from at least 18 different countries in the first five months of 2014 - U.S. citizens refusing to vaccinate allow the disease to take hold and spread. The Amish don't vaccinate, so the disease spread quickly throughout the entire community. A similar community in Alabama wouldn't CARE (at least as much) that a measles patient showed up at the county fair because almost all of them are vaccinated and immune. If anyone caught it, it would end there most likely - a handful of cases at most, not hundreds.
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Right. The Insane One's regime has hidden the comprehensive list of where they placed The Insane One's Million Illegals. They would not be patients. They are likely to be asymptomatic carriers. The EPA and the IRS are blunt political weapons used against the people. NASA had its mission shifted to Muslim Outreach, why do you think the CDC is immune from political mischief?

If you are thinking only of measles you think far too narrowly.
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

JasperL said:
LOL - no data, as I suspected. You are predictable, I'll give you that!
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Do you have a comprehension difficulty? The Congress cannot get information from The Insane One's regime. You too are predictable. Why has The Insane One hidden the data?

You should have just admitted that you were asleep.
 
Misterveritis said:
"I do not believe we will get real information until after The Insane One is forced out of office or ends his reign of error. Keep your head buried in the sand and continue to blame your neighbor.

Deep down in the dark recesses of your heart you know I am right."

I have given you an answer. You don't like it.

What makes you think I am speaking of Mexicans? I am speaking of invaders. They come from a wide variety of countries. And they are attacking us. They attack us with diseases, with crime, by displacing Americans in jobs, by destroying our economy through welfare and medical care.

If you do not hate this treasonous monster in the White House you are not paying attention. Or worse you are secretly as treasonous as he is. I cannot speak to your current state in life. I can speak to the state of the nation and we are in very deep trouble.
Click to expand...

I asked you to show proof that this outbreak came from illegal aliens.

You should really not hyperbolize, the more you do, the less credible you are. (if that is even possible)
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

Misterveritis said:
"When you delight in bringing in illegal aliens to supplant American citizens you reveal the evil in your heart and the Democratic Party's strategy to achieve one party, Soviet style rule.

It is pure evil."

This is the kind of idiocy I have learned to expect from the authoritarian statists who post here. There is not much else to say.
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Good because you haven't said anything worth noting to begin with.
 
Misterveritis said:
Are you another who believes the poorest of the poor from Guatemala were vaccinated against all of the common diseases of their origin states? Perhaps you should question all of the evidence of your own complete ignorance. In the absence of the diseased would it matter of not everyone vaccinated their children? The Insane One brought them here. He did not even need Gruber to lie to his base. Did he?
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You're weird.
 
JasperL said:
You might have some credibility if you recognized when these "invaders" actually came to America, but your blind partisanship won't allow that. 12 million before Obama took office - roughly zero since then.

FWIW, I can only assume that if you were in the shoes of these "invaders," you'd make the same choice they did - walk over as invited, work, take care of their families. I'd be embarrassed as a father or husband to tell my family that I won't do what I can to give them the best life possible and so will not cross the border and find a job that will support them, and often an extended family left at home.
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This tells me that you have no interest in truth. The Insane One invited a million illegals to come here in 2013-2014. That number is not zero. So why do you lie about this?

I do not care why the invaders invaded. The federal government has the sole responsibility for protecting its citizens. The Federal government not only failed it encouraged this invasion. They should not have been invited to come here illegally. And they should not have been allowed in simply because they want to come here. This is my country. It is not their country. Toss out the invaders. And while we are at it we should toss out the Fifth Column enablers.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Re ebola vs. measles -

The reaction to ebola was way overblown.

But the reaction to people not vaccinating their kids for measles, mumps, polio and chicken pox is NOT overblown. These diseases are much more likely to get you sick - and possibly kill you - than ebola in our country.

And yes, flu is also a problem and we should all get our flu shots (although I admit I'm hit and miss for that one).
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Jenny McCarthy should be deported..she has done more harm, health wise than any illegal immigrant has health wise.
 
Misterveritis said:
This tells me that you have no interest in truth. The Insane One invited a million illegals to come here in 2013-2014. That number is not zero. So why do you lie about this?

I do not care why the invaders invaded. The federal government has the sole responsibility for protecting its citizens. The Federal government not only failed it encouraged this invasion. They should not have been invited to come here illegally. And they should not have been allowed in simply because they want to come here. This is my country. It is not their country. Toss out the invaders. And while we are at it we should toss out the Fifth Column enablers.
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Your job skills and education must be really poor if you feel threatened by illegals coming and taking your job.

You have created so many enemies and boogie men in your mind. How do you live day to day with all the hyperbole you create?
 
"re you another who believes the poorest of the poor from Guatemala were vaccinated against all of the common diseases of their origin states? Perhaps you should question all of the evidence of your own complete ignorance. In the absence of the diseased would it matter of not everyone vaccinated their children? The Insane One brought them here. He did not even need Gruber to lie to his base. Did he?"
HenryChinaski said:
You're weird.
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Whether that is true or not I cannot say.

I can say that I am right. Which of these statements do you believe make me "weird"?

1) Are you another who believes the poorest of the poor from Guatemala were vaccinated against all of the common diseases of their origin states?

2) In the absence of the diseased would it matter of not everyone vaccinated their children?

3) The Insane One brought them here. He did not even need Gruber to lie to his base. Did he?
 
"his tells me that you have no interest in truth. The Insane One invited a million illegals to come here in 2013-2014. That number is not zero. So why do you lie about this?

I do not care why the invaders invaded. The federal government has the sole responsibility for protecting its citizens. The Federal government not only failed it encouraged this invasion. They should not have been invited to come here illegally. And they should not have been allowed in simply because they want to come here. This is my country. It is not their country. Toss out the invaders. And while we are at it we should toss out the Fifth Column enablers."
beefheart said:
Your job skills and education must be really poor if you feel threatened by illegals coming and taking your job.

You have created so many enemies and boogie men in your mind. How do you live day to day with all the hyperbole you create?
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Have I mentioned, even one time that I am concerned about my job?

I am a senior systems engineering manager. Why do you believe I feel threatened about someone who is illiterate in their own language?

Which of my statements is giving you problems? Which statements did you find to be hyperbole?
 
Misterveritis said:
"his tells me that you have no interest in truth. The Insane One invited a million illegals to come here in 2013-2014. That number is not zero. So why do you lie about this?

I do not care why the invaders invaded. The federal government has the sole responsibility for protecting its citizens. The Federal government not only failed it encouraged this invasion. They should not have been invited to come here illegally. And they should not have been allowed in simply because they want to come here. This is my country. It is not their country. Toss out the invaders. And while we are at it we should toss out the Fifth Column enablers."

Have I mentioned, even one time that I am concerned about my job?

I am a senior systems engineering manager. Why do you believe I feel threatened about someone who is illiterate in their own language?

Which of my statements is giving you problems? Which statements did you find to be hyperbole?
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Carrying obsessive and non productive hate isn't a good thing, it leads to unhappiness and an early death.

Stable people don't talk like you post.
 
Misterveritis said:
"re you another who believes the poorest of the poor from Guatemala were vaccinated against all of the common diseases of their origin states? Perhaps you should question all of the evidence of your own complete ignorance. In the absence of the diseased would it matter of not everyone vaccinated their children? The Insane One brought them here. He did not even need Gruber to lie to his base. Did he?"

Whether that is true or not I cannot say.

I can say that I am right. Which of these statements do you believe make me "weird"?

1) Are you another who believes the poorest of the poor from Guatemala were vaccinated against all of the common diseases of their origin states?

2) In the absence of the diseased would it matter of not everyone vaccinated their children?

3) The Insane One brought them here. He did not even need Gruber to lie to his base. Did he?
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Are you ok?
 
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