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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Sherman123 said:
Luckily the legislation is trending my way. Personal exemptions are being attacked in a number of states, even California is picking up the slack and experts think it could be abolished by the end of the year. So roll up your sleeve and get ready for your medicine! =)

California lawmakers want to repeal 'personal beliefs' exemption - CNN.com
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Thankfully we moved away from what is becoming a more and more fascist country... (that is not why we moved... just a coincidence)

Also, apparently there have been 31 recent legal proposals to expand exemptions... so who knows.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Vaccines are a matter of fact - CNN.com

If mandatory vaccinations do happen and an innocent child dies any lawmaker who voted for the bill should have a child of theirs put to death...
 
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Sherman123 said:
Flee those vaccinations, GMO's, and chemtrails!
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I edited my post and we left for an adventure. Nothing else... and I don't like what I see happening to my beautiful US of A. Neither do most of my conservative family members...
 
Lursa said:
You can check with WA St and about 30 dead infants in 2 seasons, starting another, where herd immunity has decreased for whooping cough when parents stopped vaccinating after decades of high vaccination rates.
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In California too, we've had a real problem with whooping cough. We're pretty sure my husband got it, but we got him on antibiotics fast (didn't bother to have him tested). A co-worker in Minneapolis wasn't as lucky and suffered for weeks before doctors realized what she had. No, she didn't die, but she felt miserable for a very long time. Turns out the vaccine for whooping cough wears off; I've gotten my booster I hope everyone else has too. Between kids not getting vaccinated and adults being at risk, it's been really bad in California.
 
Bodhisattva said:
...

Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Vaccines are a matter of fact - CNN.com

...
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Good article.

Thanks for posting the link.
I especially liked the last several sentences.

Of course I vaccinated my children. Didn't think twice. Not a big fan of the measles or mumps or rubella -- to name a few very preventable diseases.

And here is where I may lapse for a moment -- into opinion.

The anti-vaccination argument is often snugly wrapped in the "I love my kids" sentiment. And, I find it, well, a little insulting.

To suggest that anyone who vaccinates their kids doesn't love them is a whole new level of lunacy. But here is the fact of the matter, for me.

It's not just because I love my kids that I vaccinated them -- it's because I love your kids as well.
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Bodhisattva said:
Why didn't we all die from these diseases pre-vaccine? Why didn't the Bubonic Plague wipe out humanity? I mean, there was ZERO herd immunity... right?
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MY GAWD do you have no knowledge of history? whole towns were wiped out from the bubonic plagued. In a 5 year period 25 million people died in Europe - and there were a lot fewer people back then. Google it.

Why inflict pain, suffering, death on people when a simple vaccine stops it? Even if you don't die, why do you want to miss work because you're sick? Or because your kids are sick? They'll be missing school.

What is up with some of the people on this thread?
 
mac said:
Well, then the Bubonic Plague (of earlier centuries) is hardly an example of what could happen if we don't get vaccinated against the Measles, now, is it?
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An anti-vaccine person brought it up. Ask them why.
 
Misterveritis said:
AS their children die shouldn't that make you happy?
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What are you implying by that? I want all kids to be vaccinated because I want them to have the best chance at a long and healthy life.
 
Misterveritis said:
The illegal aliens who are bringing these diseases in should be kept out of the country. Those who support open borders are incredibly ignorant, self-centered idiots.
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So I assume you also will force anyone who travels overseas to get all the vaccines possible? And you'll insist that all tourists or other legal visitors to our country get vaccinated, by force if necessary? there goes our tourism industry...
 
paddymcdougall said:
MY GAWD do you have no knowledge of history? whole towns were wiped out from the bubonic plagued. In a 5 year period 25 million people died in Europe - and there were a lot fewer people back then. Google it.

Why inflict pain, suffering, death on people when a simple vaccine stops it? Even if you don't die, why do you want to miss work because you're sick? Or because your kids are sick? They'll be missing school.

What is up with some of the people on this thread?
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Pretty sure that I know a hell of a lot more about it than you as I teach a small unit on the Plague in high school... just realized you are a lady so kindly leave the insults out of it.
 
The anti-vaccine movement is an anti-science movement largely fueled by this fad of "natural" products advocates who want to push the "toxins" meme or debunked autism rhetoric to discourage vaccinations. The fact is that vaccines work, they have improved public health and saved lives as well as basically eradicate diseases. As with any drug there is the potential for adverse reactions, but it's extremely rare and the benefits outweigh the risk unless medically contraindicated.

I estimate that I have personally administered (and basically prescribed under supervision) roughly 500 vaccines to patients. just this year I've administered about 200. Vaccines are a good thing and the anti-vaccine movement needs to accept defeat by science already.
 
Bodhisattva said:
It doesn't take any time... we didn't all die because herd immunity is not a requisite for surviving epidemics.
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I never said it was.

See, you have all the answers!
 
roguenuke said:
People don't get shingles from other people. Shingles happens when the varicella virus hangs out in our bodies after having chicken pox. If you had chicken pox before, then you can get shingles.
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I know that. However if you are casual about passing CP onto other people, then they may have that to look forward to in the future. Very likely, actually.
 
Lursa said:
I never said it was.

See, you have all the answers!
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Correct... but you do seriously imply it. Just look at all the challenges you are getting on that subject. Not just me babe... :)
 
Bodhisattva said:
Correct... but you do seriously imply it. Just look at all the challenges you are getting on that subject. Not just me babe... :)
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No, those were just the foci of certain conversations.

And I cant help it if there are people with marginal...or less...understanding of certain things.

It's fairly relevant regarding vaccination, but not primarily. However it's only incidental in the way that diseases exploit populations.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Pretty sure that I know a hell of a lot more about it than you as I teach a small unit on the Plague in high school... just realized you are a lady so kindly leave the insults out of it.
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From a generic text book on....health studies? History? How about microbiology? Then we'd be talking about enough specifics to actually confer more than numbers and symptoms and perhaps, the effects on Europe after (it only covers Europe, right?)
 
Misterveritis said:
Prosecuted?

Were your parents jailed? Did you press charges?

How do you feel about the invasion? How do you feel about that piece of absolute **** in the white house who encouraged this invasion of diseased illegal aliens? Should he be prosecuted? The correct answer is "Yes, Misterveritis. The piece of absolute **** should be prosecuted for failing to secure our borders."
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Are you talking about Obama or Bush?

2011-unauthorized-immigration-01.png


I'm not an expert at reading graphs, but basic math tells me in the 8 years prior to Obama about 500,000 illegals on net arrived in this country per year. Since then the population has declined. So I'm assuming the **** in the White House is George the II.
 
Lursa said:
No, those were just the foci of certain conversations.

And I cant help it if there are people with marginal...or less...understanding of certain things.

It's fairly relevant regarding vaccination, but not primarily. However it's only incidental in the way that diseases exploit populations.
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Most of your arguments contain herd immunity... hence the challenges to back it up or the poking of holes in it... just saying.
 
Lursa said:
From a generic text book on....health studies? History? How about microbiology? Then we'd be talking about enough specifics to actually confer more than numbers and symptoms and perhaps, the effects on Europe after (it only covers Europe, right?)
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She said, "MY GAWD do you have no knowledge of history? whole towns were wiped out from the bubonic plagued. In a 5 year period 25 million people died in Europe - and there were a lot fewer people back then. Google it. " to which I answered that I teach it so I obviously have knowledge of it. She did not talk about microbiology but we do cover aspects of that even though that is irrelevant to the comment that I made about her comment.
 
JasperL said:
Are you talking about Obama or Bush?

2011-unauthorized-immigration-01.png


I'm not an expert at reading graphs, but basic math tells me in the 8 years prior to Obama about 500,000 illegals on net arrived in this country per year. Since then the population has declined. So I'm assuming the **** in the White House is George the II.
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You also are not an expert on chronology... we are in the year 2015.
 
Bodhisattva said:
You also are not an expert on chronology... we are in the year 2015.
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Here is the latest stats that I could find.

"an estimated 11.5 million unauthorized immigrants were living in the United States in January 2011 compared to a revised 2010 estimate of 11.6 million.

These results suggest little to no change in the unauthorized immigrant population from 2010 to 2011.

It is unlikely that the unauthorized immigrant population increased after 2007 given relatively high U.S. unemployment, improved economic conditions in Mexico, record low numbers of apprehensions of unauthorized immigrants at U.S. borders, and greater levels of border enforcement.

Of all unauthorized immigrants living in the United States in 2011, 55 percent entered between 1995 and 2004. Entrants since 2005 accounted for only 14 percent of the total.
Fifty-nine percent of unauthorized immigrants in 2011 were from Mexico."

Mar. 2012, US Department of Homeland Security

"Estimates of the Unauthorized Population Residing in the United States: January 2011"
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http://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000844
 
Misterveritis said:
Have you sent the President your thoughts? He allowed all the illegal aliens into the country with all of their diseases. American citizens had their children die. And still we have not risen up and swept him and his regime out of office.
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The problem with that idea is that most of the central American countries that those immigrants are coming from don't have significantly different vaccination rates than the United States does.

World Bank statistics indicate that some of the countries that the kids are traveling from actually have higher vaccination rates than the United States. The U.S. has a 92 percent vaccination rate for measles. Mexico vaccinates 99 percent of its children; Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras all have a 93 percent vaccination rate.
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Vectors or Victims? Docs Slam Rumors That Migrants Carry Disease - NBC News
 
Bodhisattva said:
You also are not an expert on chronology... we are in the year 2015.
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True, but the point was the "invasion" of all these diseased illegals happened under Bush, which I'm sure was Misterveritis' point....

FWIW, the latest estimate I could find (2013) puts the number at 11.3 million - still a decline since George left, not an "invasion."
 
joko104 said:
Medical mistakes are the #3 leading cause of death now. Only an idiot believes that doctors are gods.
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Never claimed Doctors are gods only that being afraid of something that happens 1 in a million to the point that you avoid it even though it will prevent something as bad or worse that can happen 1 in 1000 times is illogical.
 
mac said:
Well, then the Bubonic Plague (of earlier centuries) is hardly an example of what could happen if we don't get vaccinated against the Measles, now, is it?
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I'm not the one who brought it up.

And it supports my side way better than it supports yours.
 
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