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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Did you have a blood test that confirmed actual influenza or did you just get sick?

    A large portion of the population routinely misidentifies a cold or a stomach bug as "the flu," as the symptoms are similar. (albeit usually less severe)
    I don't go to the doctor in general. Waste of time and money. Feel free to come to your own conclusion though...

    One thing I love is how they say you can't get the flu from the shot but you side effects are this:

    Runny nose
    Wheezing
    Headache
    Vomiting
    Muscle aches
    Fever

    And here are the symptoms of the flu itself:

    Fever and extreme coldness (chills shivering, shaking (rigor))
    Cough
    Nasal congestion
    Runny nose
    Sneezing
    Body aches, especially joints and throat
    Fatigue
    Headache
    Irritated, watering eyes
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 02-02-15 at 10:17 PM.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Those are facts. Additionally the two times I did get the flu vaccine... I got the flu that week. Only two times that I got the flu in that decade.
    Would be possible if you did the kind you inhale because that's a live virus. The shot is not a live virus so it wouldn't be possible for it to cause the flu.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Would be possible if you did the kind you inhale because that's a live virus. The shot is not a live virus so it wouldn't be possible for it to cause the flu.
    Exactly.

    From livescience


    Can you get the flu from the flu shot?

    "Itís a myth that you can get flu from the flu vaccine," Schaffner said.


    The viruses in the flu shot are killed, so people cannot get the flu from a flu vaccine.

    However, because it takes about two weeks for people to build up immunity after they get the flu vaccine, some people may catch the flu shortly after their vaccinated, if they are exposed to the flu during this time period.

    Some people may also mistakenly attribute symptoms of a cold to the vaccine, Schaffner said.

    The nasal spray vaccine contains a "live attenuated" flu virus, but the virus is weakened so that it cannot cause the flu. The viruses in the nasal spray can't replicate in the warm temperatures of the lungs and other parts in the body. However, because temperatures in the nose are colder, the virus causes a small infection in the nose. This infection does not cause symptoms in most people, but in some people, it causes symptoms such as runny nose and sore throat, Schaffner said.
    Read more:

    Flu Shot Facts & Side Effects (Updated for 2014-2015)
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    What is it about measles vaccines? Vaccines for measles didn't exist when I was going to school. You got the disease, of which there were 2 versions, one lasted for 3 days, and the other, the bad one lasted for about 2 weeks. Then you were immune for life. Our parents and grandparents had all had measles, and nobody worried about it, nor did anybody ever die of it. What has happened? Was measles so eradicated that no one now has any immunity toward it?
    wrong. peopled died of it. and others suffered life-long problems from it.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Even that research was discredited. Do you have anything else to add?
    I'd love to read the research that discredits this. Please provide.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    They build a superior artificial resistance to that particular virus. Natural =/= better.

    I mean, you're not trying to suggest that exposing people to three viruses naturally is better, are you? Because I got a scoreboard for you to look at.
    Wrong. Natural immunity is far superior to the artificial resistance provided by vaccines. It's not even close.

    I'm not suggesting anything. I stated a fact. Vaccines do not afford the same immunity as actually getting the disease.

    Now, I'd love to see this scoreboard you're talking about.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    "last yearís vaccine was only 60 percent effective"

    Was Your Flu Shot A Waste Of Time This Year? ę CBS Denver

    That being said I don't really care. I took the shot twice and both times I got the flu within a day or two. Only two times in 11 years or so that I got the flu. Cost me money and made me sick. Nobody I knew was getting the flu shot and I don't recall any of them ever getting the flu. We talked about it that is why I remember... what a waste it was for people of our age group, at least.
    You said 95% ineffective. Your source says 60% effective...aka 40% ineffective. You were way off.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Wrong. Natural immunity is far superior to the artificial resistance provided by vaccines. It's not even close.

    I'm not suggesting anything. I stated a fact. Vaccines do not afford the same immunity as actually getting the disease.

    Now, I'd love to see this scoreboard you're talking about.
    In some cases, the vaccines provide even better immunity. The Hib (Haemophilus Influenzae type b) and tetanus vaccines actually provide more effective immunity than natural infection.

    Natural immunity can last longer, but it requires getting the infection in the first place. What good is being naturally immune to polio if you already lost your legs to it? Sure, you can brag that your immunity to future polio infection is better than those vaccinated, but you're the one who can't walk.

    Furthermore, people who get the chickenpox are immune to getting it again, but often develop shingles as a result later in life. Not so for people who were vaccinated.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Not when it comes to chickenpox, measles, and other highly contagious diseases.

    What you said was, and I quote: "The root of epidemic disease is unhealthy populations with inadequate resources." You also blamed disease on American diet. Diseases like chickenpox, measles, polio, smallpox and the like don't spread because of those conditions. You can try to twist around it, but I feel fairly comfortable in my interpretation.



    I'm sorry, but that's absurd. Humans have survived for thousands of years, all over the globe, despite living without any medications and in unsanitary conditions. The result is high infant mortality rates, people dying younger than they would today, and people suffering for years with painful conditions.



    I'll stick to the millions that die in those plagues, and who blame the disease on demons and spirits and deities, instead of knowing that it's a bacteria spread by fleas that are carried by rats.



    I'm sorry to tell you that this is nearly complete bull****.

    Vaccines are preventative medicine. Vaccines do work. You haven't presented a stitch of evidence to the contrary.

    Western medicine has figured out how we can avoid all sorts of diseases, such as the aforementioned scurvy, cholera, STD's.... Chinese acupuncturists didn't figure out that germs and bacteria cause disease; South American shamans didn't figure out that washing your hands helps prevent the spread of disease. I know of no evidence that non-Western medicine is actually any good at predicting diseases years in advance, let alone effectively preventing diseases.

    Thanks to empirical and scientific methods, we know that viruses exist; that germs exist; that bacteria can be beneficial and harmful; that genes play various roles in medical conditions, and so forth. We also know, using empirical and scientific methods, that non-Western methods generally don't work.

    It's not a superiority complex. It's results.



    Right, so the reason why refuse to take vaccines unless there's a massive deadly epidemic is because you acknowledge they're a part of disease control. Heck, right in your own response you said you wouldn't get a vaccine unless your life was in mortal danger.

    I also find it bizarre that you criticize Western medicine for its alleged de-emphasis of prevention, yet you refuse to actually take one of the most effective tools we have to prevent common diseases.



    The "Western" medical establishment is largely concluding that you should eat well, get roughly 30 minutes of exercise a day, avoid processed food, don't smoke, and this will prevent certain conditions -- like heart disease, diabetes and certain cancers.



    Unfortunately, it does. As I mentioned previously, *cough* scientific evidence has established that this is not just an individual choice, it also affects the community around you. By refusing to get vaccinated, you are not only a freeloader on the protection offered by others, you offer those diseases another vector for transmission. You are, in a very small way, causing harm to your community. Since you claim to understand that vaccines work, I don't see how your choice is a rational one, or one to be proud of.
    In order to really have this discussion properly with you it would take hours and hours of educating you, and even then you probably wouldn't even listen.

    The medical system is broken. If vaccines are the only thing standing between us and epidemics then we're pretty S.O.L. because the vaccines won't last forever.

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