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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The theory is fine. Inject a body with small amounts of inert virus and allow the body to build a natural resistance. One of our problems is that we arent letting our bodies build resistance. We are on drugs for EVERYTHING.
    Actually, vaccines don't build natural resistance at all.
    It's recently been proven that a lot of our immunity stems from the gut and the bacteria within it. Vaccines, on the other hand, circumvent that system because it's injected directly into muscle tissue.

    Gut bacteria essential for immune cell development - Medical News Today
    Gut bacteria instrumental to development of innate immune cells
    In this latest study, published in the journal Cell Host & Microbe, they describe how they discovered that beneficial gut bacteria played a key role in the development of innate immune cells - specifically macrophages, monocytes and neutrophils - special white blood cells that provide a first line of defense against invading pathogens.

    These white blood cells do not only circulate in the blood, they are also stored in the spleen and in bone marrow. When the team compared counts of white blood cells in these areas in mice born without gut bacteria - known as "germ-free" mice - and healthy mice with a normal gut bacteria population, they found the germ-free mice had fewer of them.

    The germ-free mice also had fewer stemlike cells that can differentiate into some types of immune cells. Plus, their spleens contained defective innate immune cells whose populations never reached the size found in healthy mice with microbes in their gut.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No on said he was, what was state was that his work had been discredited. That is a fact. Do you deny it?
    I question it, yes.
    Was Andrew Wakefield right all along?
    Conclusions
    Although the PLOS One authors are careful to admit that further research is needed to confirm their results, and concede that their findings in ASD children may simply reflect an early phase of development of non-ASD-associated inflammatory bowel disease, their findings are hugely compelling. The evidence is mounting that there was very little wrong with the science performed by Andrew Wakefield’s group in 1998, and that an enormous effort was mounted to discredit him because of the threats his work presented to powerful interests. The sooner this truth is communicated to, and understood by, the public – the better.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I question it, yes.
    Andrew Wakefield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    After the publication of the paper, other researchers were unable to reproduce Wakefield's findings or confirm his hypothesis of an association between the MMR vaccine and autism[6] or autism and gastrointestinal disease.[7] A 2004 investigation by Sunday Times reporter Brian Deer identified undisclosed financial conflicts of interest on Wakefield's part,[8] and most of his co-authors then withdrew their support for the study's interpretations.[9] The British General Medical Council (GMC) conducted an inquiry into allegations of misconduct against Wakefield and two former colleagues.[10] The investigation centred on Deer's numerous findings, including that children with autism were subjected to unnecessary invasive medical procedures,[11] such as colonoscopy and lumbar puncture, and that Wakefield acted without the required ethical approval from an institutional review board.

    On 28 January 2010, a five-member statutory tribunal of the GMC found three dozen charges proved, including four counts of dishonesty and 12 counts involving the abuse of developmentally challenged children.[12] The panel ruled that Wakefield had "failed in his duties as a responsible consultant", acted both against the interests of his patients, and "dishonestly and irresponsibly" in his published research.[13][14][15] The Lancet immediately and fully retracted his 1998 publication on the basis of the GMC's findings, noting that elements of the manuscript had been falsified.[16] The Lancet's editor-in-chief Richard Horton said the paper was "utterly false" and that the journal had been "deceived".[17] Three months later, Wakefield was struck off the Medical Register in May 2010, with a statement identifying deliberate falsification in The Lancet research,[18] and is barred from practising medicine in the UK.[19]
    Please stop doing that. It's embarrassing.
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  4. #334
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Andrew Wakefield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Please stop doing that. It's embarrassing.
    Stop doing what? Questioning that idea that autism and gut issues are link? Because that's what I'm doing.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    If suddenly there is a true epidemic of a virulent plague and millions of people start dying, I'd probably consider getting vaccinated against that disease.
    You'd consider it? Seriously?

    So if there was a resurgence of smallpox, you'd wait until after it reaches epidemic status to consider taking the smallpox vaccine?


    Until then, the extreme views on vaccination, including taking away a person's right to choose, are totally hyperbolic.
    Unless they aren't.

    This is not an individual health issue, it's also a community health issue. There are many people who are unable to receive vaccines, because their health doesn't allow it or their immune systems are compromised. Vaccines are also highly effective, but not 100%; among other factors, the immunity can wear off. The more people who are immunized, the smaller the vectors for transmission.

    Plus, we know that mandatory vaccinations have completely eradicated certain diseases, such as smallpox and polio. I have no doubt that for those diseases, compulsory vaccination was the best available option.


    And when it comes to things like the flu vaccine, I don't trust corporate interests.
    Good news! Flu vaccines aren't all that profitable. The profit margins are lower than other drugs, and they have to destroy all unused stock at the end of the year. They make a lot more money on boner pills and drugs to thicken your eyelashes than flu vaccines.


    The root of epidemic disease is unhealthy populations with inadequate resources.
    Please, spare us such nonsense.

    Specific diseases are spread by poor conditions -- e.g. cholera will spread in communities without adequate water supplies. Chickenpox, for example, is airborne and highly contagious; prior to the vaccine, it routinely spread throughout otherwise healthy people, including in affluent communities.


    Look at the average American diet and waistline and tell me that we have healthy immune systems.
    You don't get the chickenpox from eating Frosted Flakes. Before the chicken pox vaccine was issued in 1995, and long before Americans were as fat as they are today, chickenpox routinely spread throughout affluent communities.


    Vaccines are a patch for a symptom that is part of a MUCH bigger problem. Nature will always adapt in order to cull the weak.
    What is this, the Horatio Alger story?

    Polio didn't spread because of sugar, or big waist lines, or video games, or a lack of resources. Polio wasn't stopped by kids exercising outside and eating right. Polio was eradicated in the US because of a vaccine.

    Obviously, certain specific diseases are rare today because of better diets (scurvy) and running water (cholera). However, vaccination keeps a disease like the measles in check. The potential harms of the vaccines are extremely small, and vastly outweighed by the harms of a failure to vaccinate.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Got your panties twisted too I see. Theres a lot of that going around.

    Nowhere did I offer the 95% figure. I was contributing to a conversation...and apparently to your butthurt status. You are responding like you own stock in a vaccine company. Re ****ing lax already.
    Then your response was irrelevant to the post you quoted and you shouldn't have used the quote function.

    Regardless, the rest of my post proved your link was a load of garbage.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Actually, vaccines don't build natural resistance at all.
    It's recently been proven that a lot of our immunity stems from the gut and the bacteria within it. Vaccines, on the other hand, circumvent that system because it's injected directly into muscle tissue.
    Just because gut bacteria help build resistance doesn't mean that vaccines don't. That is invalid reasoning my friend.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Actually, the real question is how often do people experience complications from the vaccine vs the complications experience from actually having measles, particular in developed countries where vaccines are ubiquitous.
    No, the other question is who gets to decide which risk to take?

    Many here say it's the government. Maybe the governments should have people at casinos dictating which bet to place calculating the odds.

    Many people no longer grasp the concept of INDIVIDUAL risk taking, that it's MY risk to decide, not the government's or the collective hive mentality.

    Most vaccinations are a disease they are injecting into the person. No tests are done on the person before this. No information of where or how it is was made. Just 50 needles with diseases, some with many blended together, for which those of the collective hive mentality declare the big pharma has successfully assured the government it's safe - and thus only a lunatic would dare question it.

    And all the experts swore Iraq had WMDs too. To everyone. To the whole world. And MOST people believed them. It's not like government and corporations ever lie to anyone.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    There goes driving, playing football and eating spicy food. Damn you are a buzz kill to life.
    Only if you live in a black and white world where everything must be allowed or the government has to ban everything dangerous.

    I don't live there. Do you?

    Cars are regulated. How they're built and operated are regulated to provide reasonable safety standards to protect the people. Why aren't you railing against those fascist speed limits?
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Actually, vaccines don't build natural resistance at all.
    It's recently been proven that a lot of our immunity stems from the gut and the bacteria within it. Vaccines, on the other hand, circumvent that system because it's injected directly into muscle tissue.
    They build a superior artificial resistance to that particular virus. Natural =/= better.

    I mean, you're not trying to suggest that exposing people to three viruses naturally is better, are you? Because I got a scoreboard for you to look at.
    Last edited by Deuce; 02-02-15 at 05:16 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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