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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    My thoughts...

    We have not only prevented small pox epidemics but we eradicated the disease.
    I had to have a smallpox vaccination before I started school in the early 1950s but my children who are in their 30s and early 40s did not need the vaccination because the disease was eradicated.

    Our goal should be to eradicate measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, whooping cough , polio diphtheria, so children and adults of future generations do not have worry about epidemics of those diseases anymore.
    Then educate the people. That is the best way to do this. Convince the people that vaccines are good for them, rather than removing their choice. Most will get their children those shots, particularly if we have affordable healthcare where no one feels going to the doctor is something that will either a) cost a lot, even if in insurance costs or b) pressured into something that makes them uncomfortable. Also perhaps we should work harder on actually helping people feel better and be less contagious or likely to spread the disease if they do get it.
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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    But the point is - epidemics DON'T rage through schools anymore, when everyone is vaccinated.

    And even if the kid doesn't die from being sick, they lose school time, their parents may lose time from work (if they both work), and there may be complications for the kid.

    Why put up with all that if we don't have to?
    They do though, they are just not of major well known illnesses.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    So now we are suggesting banning the freedom to travel? How about up to date proof before leaving your house while we are at it?
    {{{Shrug}}} You are free to travel. But you can't go to another country unless you have a passport. Is that banning your freedom to travel?

    Given that the latest epidemics come from people who traveled overseas and brought the disease back with them, seemed like another good place to stop the outbreaks from happening. I always thought people who went overseas got fully vaccinated anyway, but apparently they don't.

    I don't care if you like the idea or not. Just was offering it up as another way to cut down on people making the rest of us sick.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then educate the people. That is the best way to do this. Convince the people that vaccines are good for them, rather than removing their choice. Most will get their children those shots, particularly if we have affordable healthcare where no one feels going to the doctor is something that will either a) cost a lot, even if in insurance costs or b) pressured into something that makes them uncomfortable. Also perhaps we should work harder on actually helping people feel better and be less contagious or likely to spread the disease if they do get it.
    and by the way - along with kids in public schools having to get vaccinate, I'm ALL FOR education. Many of us adults need to get the MMR; the CDC recommends it for anyone born after 1957 who either never got the measles vaccine (and never had it) or who got vaccinated in the 1960s. Without the latest outbreak and discussions like this I never would have known that. How many others out there are like me, born in the '60s, who need to get the MMR?

    I also didn't know about the need to get the DTAP again until the whooping cough outbreak here in California a couple years ago. Turns out the DTAP (TDAP? I always forget) only lasts about 10 years; not a problem when all kids were getting the vaccine but it is a problem now.

    So education needs to happen as well.

    I'm also fine with schools holding vaccination days for free, like they used to . Much more convenient for the parents.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    and by the way - along with kids in public schools having to get vaccinate, I'm ALL FOR education. Many of us adults need to get the MMR; the CDC recommends it for anyone born after 1957 who either never got the measles vaccine (and never had it) or who got vaccinated in the 1960s. Without the latest outbreak and discussions like this I never would have known that. How many others out there are like me, born in the '60s, who need to get the MMR?

    I also didn't know about the need to get the DTAP again until the whooping cough outbreak here in California a couple years ago. Turns out the DTAP (TDAP? I always forget) only lasts about 10 years; not a problem when all kids were getting the vaccine but it is a problem now.

    So education needs to happen as well.

    I'm also fine with schools holding vaccination days for free, like they used to . Much more convenient for the parents.
    Actually, only one shot was given up til about 1989 for most. I don't know if I got a second shot or not, since I was already enrolled by then and some vaccines are age limited. After a certain age, you can't get them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Apples and giraffes. And the people who matter (the Black Robes) disagree with you. The relevant precedent was set in 1905 - Jacobson v. Massachusetts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I can't ever figure out how to post links to .pdf files, but an extensive discussion is titled, "Mandatory Vaccinations: Precedent and Current Laws" from the Congressional Research Office, May 21, 2014. Here's a quote from the challenger in Jacobson:



    Sounds like many of the arguments made on this thread, which the Supreme Court rejected in favor of the government having the ability to protect the common welfare. I can't imagine any court could find otherwise as it's a core purpose of government and the powers of a police state.
    All it would take is a challenge from a family that has a child die from the vaccination. Of course, the medical industry will not diagnose as such and the Pharmacuetical industry will never admit the vaccine might be the cause so having evidence is next to impossible to challenge... it is a multi-billion dollar industry along with a majority population that vaccines work and that want to railroad the rights of a minority population that suffers from vaccinations so nothing will change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    {{{Shrug}}} You are free to travel. But you can't go to another country unless you have a passport. Is that banning your freedom to travel?

    Given that the latest epidemics come from people who traveled overseas and brought the disease back with them, seemed like another good place to stop the outbreaks from happening. I always thought people who went overseas got fully vaccinated anyway, but apparently they don't.

    I don't care if you like the idea or not. Just was offering it up as another way to cut down on people making the rest of us sick.
    If banning the passport due to not being up to date with vaccines is occuring... yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    My thoughts...

    We have not only prevented small pox epidemics but we eradicated the disease.
    I had to have a smallpox vaccination before I started school in the early 1950s but my children who are in their 30s and early 40s did not need the vaccination because the disease was eradicated.

    Our goal should be to eradicate measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, whooping cough , polio diphtheria, so children and adults of future generations do not have worry about epidemics of those diseases anymore.
    There will always be diseases, and sometimes getting sick can help our immune system. I need to find the study I found before but it showed that one of there is a vaccine for has shown to provide us with some increased immunity against something else if we contracted it rather than getting the vaccine. It isn't a normally deadly disease, but the other thing it helps build our immune system against is bad.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    All it would take is a challenge from a family that has a child die from the vaccination. Of course, the medical industry will not diagnose as such and the Pharmacuetical industry will never admit the vaccine might be the cause so having evidence is next to impossible to challenge... it is a multi-billion dollar industry along with a majority population that vaccines work and that want to railroad the rights of a minority population that suffers from vaccinations so nothing will change.
    I'm not sure any of that is true. Certainly there is a real risk of allergic reaction and death with vaccines. But that wouldn't be sufficient for the challenge - it's been 100 years and the law is still good - because the benefits to public health are so obvious and overwhelming versus the small risks.

    And it's not that the public "believes" vaccines work - they DO work. Period.

    Finally, if someone is known to 'suffer' from vaccines - e.g. are allergic to them, have suffered severe side effects in previous vaccines - they can and do get exceptions to the mandates.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not sure any of that is true. Certainly there is a real risk of allergic reaction and death with vaccines. But that wouldn't be sufficient for the challenge - it's been 100 years and the law is still good - because the benefits to public health are so obvious and overwhelming versus the small risks.
    SCOTUS overturns its bad decisions. Precedent. Brown v Board 1954 overturned 1996 Plessy v Ferguson

    And it's not that the public "believes" vaccines work - they DO work. Period.
    They work for the majority...

    Finally, if someone is known to 'suffer' from vaccines - e.g. are allergic to them, have suffered severe side effects in previous vaccines - they can and do get exceptions to the mandates.
    Sad fact is that is too late for a lot of kids... an exception is no good when you have brain damage or dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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