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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Perhaps the shall we say arguments & harsh comments could be set aside for discussion of the OP?
    Hope so.
    Thanks
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    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
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    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsMartinBlank View Post
    I spend quite a bit of time in the Golden State for work. I still can't understand how you can believe so strongly in the "new science" that supports climate change, but totally discount the "old science" of vaccinating your kids. It is such a weird disconnect. If I had young children I would be scared to death to take them onto the West Coast right now.
    One point I see some while favoring vaccination for others see mandatory vaccinations, either by schools enforcing and demanding proof of vaccination as a violation of their rights.
    That their rights as a parent(s) are infringed upon.
    95 % is the rate of vaccination needed to minimize & contain outbreaks.
    While some are against the MMR, are they also against vaccination for polio?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Then I am further bewildered why you brought it up as an example for not needing vaccines for herd immunity.
    I am pretty sure that I did not bring it up... mac, Lursa or somebody did. I simply argued against Lursa's point that epidemics nearly wiped out humanity a few times. When I challenged that somebody brought up the plague. Yes... huge substantial losses but humanity was not nearly wiped out of existence. Does that help?
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    If I vaccinate my child, it won't hurt yours, if you don't vaccinate your child, it might hurt mine!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You'll have to explain that. Illegals have been flooding over the border since Reagan signed the last amnesty. I'm missing how this is a problem unique to Obama or how they affect his unstated plans. Since 2008 at worst the illegal population has been stagnant, if not declining. In the prior eight years, it increased about 4 million.
    It's unique to him because he basically invited them to break the law, then looked the other way regarding the enforcement of the law. If you want me to say it was just as bad under Reagan then I'm fine with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Also not sure who "those illegals" are who we should be most concerned about.
    The one's I've already been on record stating in this thread. Go back and look.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The 12 million that were here before Obama, or the net zero since he took office?
    Both.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And if you're talking about the children moved to various places around the country by immigration folks, they WERE vaccinated as part of the medical treatment they got under the care of the Feds. I've posted the link outlining the care those children received.
    Citation for that please. Why would they need to be vaccinated when according to others in this thread, their country of origins have at least as high of a vaccination rate as the US or maybe higher? So which is it.... they were vaccinated equal to or higher rate than the US or they were vaccinated by the Feds when they illegally came through?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Key thing is people should have a choice - and with that comes consequences for their choice. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Well, an earlier poster linked to data showing that the kids coming across the border ARE vaccinated. The adults, due to the high vaccination rates, probably are vaccinated, but can't know for sure.
    So if we can't be sure, we can't make statements that they ARE vaccinated. The answer is, "we don't know".

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    While you can have a choice - don't get vaccinated - what's easier, vaccinating yourself or trying to find any unvaccinated people coming to the country as tourists, immigrants (legal or illegal), and citizens who are returning from overseas?
    Why would we let illegals cross in the first place, secondly why let them through without proof of vaccinations and third, why would we vaccinate illegals and not just send them home? It's the trifecta of idiocy that our Federal Government did all three. Obviously it's easier for us to vaccinate, but not everyone agrees.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    And your choice has consequences for others. I know several adults who came down with whooping cough recently. They hadn't been overseas; hadn't been in contact with people from other countries. Got it right here in the good old USA from kids whose parents didn't vaccinate them. None of us has really paid attention to the fact that the whooping cough vaccine lasts about 10 years; the thought was that was good enough since all the kids got immunized. Well, it's not good enough anymore. Get your TDAP booster (the shot for whooping cough, among other things)
    True.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    One point I see some while favoring vaccination for others see mandatory vaccinations, either by schools enforcing and demanding proof of vaccination as a violation of their rights.
    That their rights as a parent(s) are infringed upon.
    95 % is the rate of vaccination needed to minimize & contain outbreaks.
    While some are against the MMR, are they also against vaccination for polio?
    I understand the basic premise of balancing privacy and parental rights with government mandates. It's a tough balance, parents have a fundamental right to parent their children until they are proven unfit - but - I think the public interest outweighs those concerns in several places. We are subject to a whole list of requirements to access our transportation system - IDs, registering our cars, mandatory insurance, seatbelt and helmet laws, etc. I guess one could make the case that none of those are requiring you to have a medical procedure - but the courts have already ruled against faith-based only healing in so many cases. I just don't think these anti-vaccine people have a legal leg to stand on.
    They all have husbands and wives and children and houses and dogs, and, you know, they've all made themselves a part of something and they can talk about what they do. What am I gonna say? "I killed the president of Paraguay with a fork. How've you been?

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsMartinBlank View Post
    I understand the basic premise of balancing privacy and parental rights with government mandates. It's a tough balance, parents have a fundamental right to parent their children until they are proven unfit - but - I think the public interest outweighs those concerns in several places. We are subject to a whole list of requirements to access our transportation system - IDs, registering our cars, mandatory insurance, seatbelt and helmet laws, etc. I guess one could make the case that none of those are requiring you to have a medical procedure - but the courts have already ruled against faith-based only healing in so many cases. I just don't think these anti-vaccine people have a legal leg to stand on.
    It's not just faith based objections. There are those that object on the basis of science that found potential hazards with vaccinations, though that science, appears to have been subsequently found incomplete or inaccurate.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not just faith based objections. There are those that object on the basis of science that found potential hazards with vaccinations, though that science, appears to have been subsequently found incomplete or inaccurate.
    Not only inaccurate but it was Fraud.
    A few snips from Andrew Wakefield's fraud case


    Andrew Wakefield's role unmasked


    But as journalists queued to report on parents' fears, Brian Deer was assigned to investigate the crisis, and unearthed a scandal of astounding proportions.

    He discovered that, far from being based on any findings, the public alarm had no scientific basis whatsoever. Rather, Wakefield had been secretly payrolled to create evidence against the shot and, while planning extraordinary business schemes meant to profit from the scare, he had concealed, misreported and changed information about the children to rig the results published in the journal.



    Before Deer’s inquiries, Wakefield had appeared to all the world to be an independent, if controversial, researcher. Tall and square-headed, with hooded eyes and a booming voice, he was the son of doctors (a neurologist and a family practitioner), had grown up in Bath, a prosperous west-of-England spa town, and joined the Royal Free in November 1988 after training in Toronto, Canada. His demeanour was languid - he was privately educated - and, born in 1956, he was a lingering example of the presumed honour of the upper middle class.

    But Deer's investigation - nominated in February 2011 for twoBritish Press Awards - discovered that, while Wakefield held himself out to be a dispassionate scientist,

    two years before the Lancet paper was published
    - and before any of the 12 children were even referred to the hospital - he had been hired to attack MMR by a lawyer, Richard Barr: a jobbing solicitor in the small eastern English town of King's Lynn, who hoped to raise a speculative class action lawsuit against drug companies which manufactured the triple shot.
    Read more:
    Andrew Wakefield - the fraud investigation
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Not only inaccurate but it was Fraud.
    A few snips from Andrew Wakefield's fraud case



    Read more:
    Andrew Wakefield - the fraud investigation
    Yeah, I know about that one. I thought there were other studies as well. Btw, I'm not defending the notion that people ought not vaccinate their children, even if there was, is, or may be discovered in some future analysis, a risk of autism or any other very bad potential effects of vaccinations, it would have to approach a significant percentage risk before I would pull my support. You might note my first comment in this thread several posts back.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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