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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Could this be a clue? How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak - Vox No, that's gotta be left wing propaganda designed to demonize god fearing American Christians doing the "lords work" It's dem brown skinned folks.
    Well... Vox is a left wing source you're right. But your own source identifies for Central American countries left double digits un vaccinated, yet you can track down one person you claim infected "382 Amish Ohioans" but you won't admit that one Gutemalan could do the same, and given you don't know what these South American illegals were vaccinated with or if any or all of the were vaccinated at all is all the proof I need.

    You're not interested in facts you interested in spreading your left wing ideologue narrative. I can get that pretty much anywhere on DP so unless you want to suddenly get interested in facts, there's nothing but repetition on my part. Have fun in ultra-partisan land!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That is what I did when you jumped in asking for proof.

    What's your point? If it's that some number of the 11 million undocumented aren't vaccinated, or that some of the recent children who crossed illegally aren't? OK, no one that I know is arguing that they all have been, and if they weren't vaccinated in custody of the immigration people, they should have been.
    My point is not only do you not know if they were vaccinated, even if you DID know they were vaccinated you don't know what they were vaccinated against AND that the data Henry provided only covers babies to 4 year olds.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're asking about some countries in Central America.
    I'm asking about SPECIFIC countries which makes up the majority of illegals who crossed the Southern US border in 2013-2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Here's the latest CDC report I could find, covering the first few months of 2014. Measles — United States, January 1–May 23, 2014

    And the 3 from the Americas were from Brazil, Chile, and Canada.
    Were those 3 from the America's vaccinated in Brazil, Chile and Canada or some other country? What were they vaccinated against and when? What boosters were they given and when?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I can, but it would help if you had some point to make.
    My point is your postion is based on missing information and rhetoric. You don't have facts - you think you do, but you don't. Getting to the bottom of this issue regarding if illegals have spread disease into the US means getting the information I've already asked about. That information may or may not be available but it's what is necessary and I'm not going to make some bs judgement call based on liberal or conservative talking points created for the ignorant to parrot. That's my point.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    100 cases of measles in a population of 400 million, now the mandatory vaccines are called for.... Problem Reaction Solution. First a problem is created and designed to elicit a certain reaction out of the public. Then the people demand something be done about the problem and willingly accept the pre-planned New World Order solution; a solution that always involves actions or legislation that never would have passed under normal circumstances.

    “It works like this – the manipulating body covertly creates a problem and then directs the media to incessantly focus on it without recourse. The problem could be anything – a war, a financial collapse, a rash of child abductions, or a terrorist attack. The power of the media can create the false perception that a big problem exists, even if it doesn’t … Once you have created this problem you make sure that an individual, a group or an aspect of society is blamed. This then rallies the population behind the desperate lunge for a solution to the problem. ‘Something must be done!’ they cry in unison. The people that created the problem in the first place then come back in and offer the solution that the people demand. Remember – the people screaming for a solution do not know that the problem was artificially created in the first place. The solution to the problem is always a further curtailment of freedom and an advancement of one or more aspects of the New World Order agenda – whether that is geopolitical expansion, new laws or the implantation of new societal worldviews.” (Paul Joseph Watson, Order Out of Chaos, pg. 13.)





    BTW whatever happened to Ebola? Baaaaaahhh.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Well... Vox is a left wing source you're right. But your own source identifies for Central American countries left double digits un vaccinated, yet you can track down one person you claim infected "382 Amish Ohioans" but you won't admit that one Gutemalan could do the same, and given you don't know what these South American illegals were vaccinated with or if any or all of the were vaccinated at all is all the proof I need.

    You're not interested in facts you interested in spreading your left wing ideologue narrative. I can get that pretty much anywhere on DP so unless you want to suddenly get interested in facts, there's nothing but repetition on my part. Have fun in ultra-partisan land!
    Quick Google search shows both left and right wing sources reporting pretty much the same thing. Glenn Becks link is awesome though. The Measles outbreak is a hoax meant to convince people to 'Obey' the government, lol.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    100 cases of measles in a population of 400 million, now the mandatory vaccines are called for.... Problem Reaction Solution. First a problem is created and designed to elicit a certain reaction out of the public. Then the people demand something be done about the problem and willingly accept the pre-planned New World Order solution; a solution that always involves actions or legislation that never would have passed under normal circumstances.

    “It works like this – the manipulating body covertly creates a problem and then directs the media to incessantly focus on it without recourse. The problem could be anything – a war, a financial collapse, a rash of child abductions, or a terrorist attack. The power of the media can create the false perception that a big problem exists, even if it doesn’t … Once you have created this problem you make sure that an individual, a group or an aspect of society is blamed. This then rallies the population behind the desperate lunge for a solution to the problem. ‘Something must be done!’ they cry in unison. The people that created the problem in the first place then come back in and offer the solution that the people demand. Remember – the people screaming for a solution do not know that the problem was artificially created in the first place. The solution to the problem is always a further curtailment of freedom and an advancement of one or more aspects of the New World Order agenda – whether that is geopolitical expansion, new laws or the implantation of new societal worldviews.” (Paul Joseph Watson, Order Out of Chaos, pg. 13.)





    BTW whatever happened to Ebola? Baaaaaahhh.
    It was amazing to see the out of control fear that swept through my office during the whole "Ebola crisis" where we, as a country, had one death.

    BTW, using stats from 3rd world countries to dictate policy in an industrialized nation is foolish.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    So your approach to this debate when you can't win an argument is to tell the offending poster to leave?

    If my child were not vaccinated, he would not present a problem to other children, who were vaccinated because they would be protected from measles. Isn't that a fair assumption?

    Not being vaccinated is not a problem because the child just like in my day before the vaccination would merely get the disease and receive a natural immunity to it. What is the problem over measles? You folks act like it's the end of the world.
    There is a reason the measles vaccine was developed. Receiving "a natural immunity" is not without risks.

    Measles are highly contagious:
    If other people breathe the contaminated air or touch the infected surface, then touch their eyes, noses, or mouths, they can become infected. Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected.

    Infected people can spread measles to others from four days before to four days after the rash appears.
    Complications:
    Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
    Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

    As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
    About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
    For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.

    Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.
    http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/transmission.html

    Also, babies don't receive their first measles vaccination until 12 months. They can at 6 months if they are going out of the country. So your child, not be vaccinated poses a risk to most infants under a year or those people with compromised immune systems. Like children undergoing chemo, or those on immunosuppressant drugs for other reasons. And that why some of us are more than a little concerned.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    It was amazing to see the out of control fear that swept through my office during the whole "Ebola crisis" where we, as a country, had one death.

    BTW, using stats from 3rd world countries to dictate policy in an industrialized nation is foolish.



    It's funny because it backfired on them, it got so hysterical they thought the admin was "doing nothing about it" and "letting ebola paitents in", they even had to name an "ebola czar"?

    In this NATIONAL CRISIS of ebola, what happened to him?



    This is more of the same ****. That said, I support vaccines due to the HARM principle of libertarianism,.

    Harm principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It's a tough one though and I am on the border.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    There is a reason the measles vaccine was developed. Receiving "a natural immunity" is not without risks.

    Measles are highly contagious:


    Complications:


    Also, babies don't receive their first measles vaccination until 12 months. They can at 6 months if they are going out of the country. So your child, not be vaccinated poses a risk to most infants under a year or those people with compromised immune systems. Like children undergoing chemo, or those on immunosuppressant drugs for other reasons. And that why some of us are more than a little concerned.



    wait, aren't we all mostly vaccinated? select few kooks?


    Is it more scary or less scary than ebola?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    The anti vaccination crowd don't care unless it lands directly on their doorstep and their families contract the disease. **** everybody else.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'm asking about SPECIFIC countries which makes up the majority of illegals who crossed the Southern US border in 2013-2014.

    Were those 3 from the America's vaccinated in Brazil, Chile and Canada or some other country? What were they vaccinated against and when? What boosters were they given and when?

    My point is your postion is based on missing information and rhetoric. You don't have facts - you think you do, but you don't. Getting to the bottom of this issue regarding if illegals have spread disease into the US means getting the information I've already asked about. That information may or may not be available but it's what is necessary and I'm not going to make some bs judgement call based on liberal or conservative talking points created for the ignorant to parrot. That's my point.
    What's my position? I don't have any idea what you think it is, but among other points, someone made a claim that it was dirty illegal diseased children who have caused the recent resurgence. I've posted data, including the CDC report, that indicates he's wrong. I've requested, but seen NOTHING to indicate these illegal ARE the source. You have none, the person I responded to presented none.

    So the FACTS I have do not support the utterly baseless claim by the poster that illegals are the source, and the data you're distracting us all with wouldn't answer that question anyway. The vaccination rates could be 99.9999999% for the actual people crossing the border, and there would still be maybe 5-15% for whom the vaccination didn't work, and it could be they who got sick and spread it here. Or the vaccination rate could be 0%, and unless one of the illegals was ground zero, that fact STILL doesn't help us figure out the cause of the recent outbreak.

    But if you want to convince us with facts, CDC has records going back a ways that identifies the country of origin. If you want to assert Central America is the source, more specifically illegals, then start looking over CDC reports and find something to support your claim. I did the work for you on one report - none from the countries you're so concerned about. But if you want to dig through more, have at it and get back to us.

    Until then, this appears to be a giant exercise in manufacturing red herrings. I can't for the life of me grasp what point you're trying to make in the context of this discussion. Guatemala has a vaccination rate of XX%. What am I supposed to conclude from that data? It's roughly that of the U.S. and France is one conclusion. Now what? We need to secure our borders? Not the subject of this thread. So I'm at a loss.

    BTW, you asked me for the vaccination records of three individuals from Brazil, Canada and Chile. Obviously I don't have that info, but they're not from your countries of concern, so what would it add to this discussion if I could locate those individuals' health records going back to their birth? It's another red herring.

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