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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Haven't looked for the 70's stats. If we do find those, will you then ask for 60's stats?
    I think the 1970's until 2010 would fill in the gap just nicely. I'm not holding my breath though....
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I think the 1970's until 2010 would fill in the gap just nicely. I'm not holding my breath though....
    Your confident that it's browned skinned folks from south of the border eh? Couldn't be religious missionaries traveling abroad who don't get vaccinated or tourists traveling around the globe who don't get vaccinated. Couldn't possibly be the most logical explanation could it.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Uhhhh people not using the medicine....?
    You haven't been keeping up with previous posts nor the link I posted which agreed with what I was saying all along. The disease wasn't much of a problem even before the vaccine was ever invented.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're not, but you jumped into the middle of a conversation in which I and others responded to very specific claims. I'll quote two, but you can review them all if you like:
    Those weren't my quotes. You should respond to the person who made those statements. My statements were clear but let me repeat them:

    Mexico is irrelevant - the illegals crossing Texas borders were from Central America, specifically Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. No vaccination info was posted by you on that, no what was in those vaccinations nor how often those vaccinations were given. Once that information is available, then we can then extrapolate using math, how many of those illegals were vaccinated and with what and when, as well as how many were not. At that point, we have a fair assessment of fact - rather than hyperbole nonsense about "blaming brown people".

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so notice what the claims were - illegals, none vaccinated, responsible for the re-emergence, MEXICO, hundreds of thousands of invaders, Obama did it all (of course).
    My statements are not about Mexico.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's the conversation you jumped into. If you want to point out that the vaccination rate for measles in Mexico dropped in 2013, fine. So between "none" and "89%" which person made the most accurate statement? It wasn't the person claiming none were vaccinated.
    I jumped into the conversation and asked a different question about Central American illegals.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    How about the specific claims it's these kids who are responsible? There is NO evidence of that, but there is evidence it was from travelers here legally, or Americans returning home from abroad.

    Why are some of us pointing out the immunization rate for Mexico - because we're responding to a claim that Obama colluded with MEXICO to send these kids here.

    How about the hundreds of thousands of invaders? That happened for roughly 8 straight years under Bush, zero years for Obama.

    Etc. It's fine to jump in, but don't be surprised when our responses are to specific claims made by the person we are responding to, instead of some other point you'd like to address.
    Mexico is irrelevant to my questions and points. Respond to those who are making claims about Mexico however you want, not my issue. I'm assuming you can discuss Mexico with them and Central America with me at the same time or is that a bad assumption on my part?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Couldn't be religious missionaries traveling abroad who don't get vaccinated or tourists traveling around the globe who don't get vaccinated. Couldn't possibly be the most logical explanation could it.
    So post facts about non-vaccinated missionaries, dates, numbers, vaccination types, etc. :
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    OMG Do you not have any idea what this discussion is about?

    Because in recent years, many parents have not had their kids vaccinated, after decades of much higher vaccination rates. So there are many more kids in society vulnerable to measles.

    Really, you are just wasting everyone's time here.
    So your approach to this debate when you can't win an argument is to tell the offending poster to leave?

    If my child were not vaccinated, he would not present a problem to other children, who were vaccinated because they would be protected from measles. Isn't that a fair assumption?

    Not being vaccinated is not a problem because the child just like in my day before the vaccination would merely get the disease and receive a natural immunity to it. What is the problem over measles? You folks act like it's the end of the world.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    So what do you see that is common? Unvaccinated people traveled here from a part of the world where a disease is common. They brought the disease from another country into this one and infected a place where the disease was rare prior to their arrival.

    Now we have the Insane One on the golf course who invited hundreds of thousands of carriers from parts of the world where these diseases are common. That Insane Monster had his regime's minions plant the disease carriers into communities around the nation. And people are getting sick from diseases that were rare.
    This has to be the silliest post I've seen in a while. The majority of the illegals coming in through the US have mandatory vaccination policies in their countries. Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador etc. Hell, some of them even have higher vaccination rates then we do. You can't prove that it was illegal immigrants like you were asked to and now you're trying to figure out a way to blame this on all travellers. You're very new at this aren't you?
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So post facts about non-vaccinated missionaries, dates, numbers, vaccination types, etc. :
    Could this be a clue? How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak - Vox No, that's gotta be left wing propaganda designed to demonize god fearing American Christians doing the "lords work" It's dem brown skinned folks.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Those weren't my quotes. You should respond to the person who made those statements.
    That is what I did when you jumped in asking for proof.

    Mexico is irrelevant - the illegals crossing Texas borders were from Central America, specifically Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. No vaccination info was posted by you on that, no what was in those vaccinations nor how often those vaccinations were given. Once that information is available, then we can then extrapolate using math, how many of those illegals were vaccinated and with what and when, as well as how many were not. At that point, we have a fair assessment of fact - rather than hyperbole nonsense about "blaming brown people".
    What's your point? If it's that some number of the 11 million undocumented aren't vaccinated, or that some of the recent children who crossed illegally aren't? OK, no one that I know is arguing that they all have been, and if they weren't vaccinated in custody of the immigration people, they should have been.

    You're asking about some countries in Central America. Here's the latest CDC report I could find, covering the first few months of 2014. Measles — United States, January 1–May 23, 2014

    Of the 288 cases, 280 (97%) were associated with importations from at least 18 countries. The source of measles acquisition could not be identified for eight (3%) cases. Forty-five direct importations (40 U.S. residents returning from abroad and five foreign visitors) have been reported. Almost half (22 [49%]) of these importations were travelers returning from the Philippines, where a large outbreak has been occurring since October 2013. Imported cases were also associated with travel from other countries in the World Health Organization (WHO) Western Pacific Region (seven cases), as well as countries in the WHO South-East Asia (eight), European (four), Americas (three), and Eastern Mediterranean (one) regions. Measles genotype information was obtained from 103 (36%) of the 288 measles cases. Four measles virus genotypes were identified: B3 (67 cases), D9 (23), D8 (12), and H1 (one) (Table).
    And the 3 from the Americas were from Brazil, Chile, and Canada.

    Mexico is irrelevant to my questions and points. Respond to those who are making claims about Mexico however you want, not my issue. I'm assuming you can discuss Mexico with them and Central America with me at the same time or is that a bad assumption on my part?
    I can, but it would help if you had some point to make. If it's to discuss the vaccination rates of various countries, I'm not interested because I'm not sure how that relates to this thread. There is no evidence those countries are the source for recent outbreaks.

  10. #1110
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    This is an interesting discussion and pardon me if comments like mine have already been posted earlier but I've been unable to read over 1,100 posts.

    1. Before vaccination for measles started in the 1960s, about 500,000 people a year contracted measles in the US. Of those, about 500 people a year died.

    2. Since the start of vaccinations, the cases of measles have been in the low hundreds in the US - clearly, vaccinations have worked.

    3. In 2014, measles cases numbered around 500 and it was noted that the outbreak was actually of a strain of measles that was vaccine resistant. Even so, about 85 % of those contracting measles that year were unvaccinated and 15% had been vaccinated. To date, I believe it's about 100 cases of measles in the US at this time.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/30/he...high.html?_r=0

    4. According to the CDC, there are about 3,000 to 49,000 deaths each year attributable to influenza - the flu.

    Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States: CDC Study Confirms Variability of Flu | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

    5. Due to concerns about allergic reactions to flu shots, these are not mandatory even for health care professionals and hospital staff in some cases.

    I appreciate the desire to have all people vaccinated against communicable diseases but the hysteria now related to the vaccination for children against measles seems highly disproportional to the actual health threat and personal rights/concerns issues that exist in this context. Seems to me, some of the same people who were wailing about Ebola hysteria are now wailing about Measles.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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