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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

  1. #91
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I love that line... anti-science. If those that made such claims cared about science they would find out what the rapidly rising ADHD rates are from,
    ADHD isn't rapidly rising. There was a significant increase in ADHD diagnoses and prescription of medication to treat it in the 1990s, but there's evidence to suggest that these were misdiagnoses and that the medication wasn't necessary. Also I thought vaccines were supposed to magically create autism, not ADHD.

    why so many doctors do not report adverse reactions even though it is federally mandated
    How do you know it's happening if no one is reporting it?

    why the instant mockery of those that question vaccines even though adverse reactions occur just as the CDC lists or adverse reactions occur for reasons that the doctors do not know?
    Because most of the "questioning" is based on nonsense that has nothing to do with reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    The anti-vaccination movement is so stupid it almost makes my blood boil. Even if vaccinations and autism were related in any way, shape, or form I rather live with my child being a potato then for him to catch Measles and die.
    Even if vaccines caused autism, the chance of a child dying of a horrific disease is far greater than any chance of getting autism. Not vaccinating is passing on the long odds and embracing the bigger chance of a terrible outcome. It's not keeping kids safe. It's recklessly exposing them to greater risk.
    Last edited by Paschendale; 01-31-15 at 10:01 PM.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    In support of vaccinations: the medical community. Against vaccinations: non-doctors and a Playboy model.

    The side you are on determines whether or not you are anti-science.
    I am on the most reasonable side. The one that does not say that the CDC is correct just because or that vaccines are causing autism. I am on the side of truth and honesty. I am one of the very few to balance the good of vaccines and the potential harm that it causes some (fact) and potentially more than the CDC and such will admit, or might even understand due to various reasons from longevity of results, under-reporting of adverse effects and a conspiracy to make money (Big Pharma).

    What side are you on?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  3. #93
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Or they can wear one of the many different types of condoms you were mentioning before. And for the record there are variety of different methods to get the vaccine that someone might be allergic too.
    Different methods but not different vaccines.... I'm assuming by method you mean different ways to administer the vaccine. Can you link all the different measles vaccine varieties for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Using the statistics that you provided us from the CDC we can see that 15,684 have claimed to have been harmed or had someone die to vaccines. Out of those 15,684, 3,895 of them were compensated by the CDC for their claim. Let's say that entire 24% was right and the vaccines did more harm than good. In the same information you provided us it shows that over 2,236,678,735 vaccines were dolled out to the public. Now if we assume that the 2,236,678,735 vaccines were safe that would barely make 1% of the vaccines dangerous. Now I don't know the exact stat for this claim, but I think you have a lot better luck winning the lottery than for a vaccine to kill you.
    Sure if I were willing to gamble the lives of my kids on 99% change they won't die. And that was just the US statistics - that's not even counting the number of vaccines that may have been tainted where people have been injured or died. My point isn't about the 1% - my point is that when it's your kid, you don't gamble. Knowing what is going into our bodies and having the option to say "no" is a natural right. You seem to not agree - or am I not understanding your position correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Most parents before vaccinations didn't have much choice in their children dying of polio either. you can fight and argue with the idea that vaccinations are 'big government' all you like. It's still wildly safer than allowing for diseases to run rampant through the Country once again.
    You don't speak for most parents - and given the choice of course getting a polio vaccine would be preferred. I'm just saying it's not for everyone - there are legitimate reasons why some kids are not vaccinated. Vaccines aren't big government, but big government sets the rules that you must do ... a, b, c,. I'm saying it's still a choice and if the government doesn't accept that they can go screw.

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Already addressed this above.
    Well I'm not going to go look for it. My statement stands unopposed.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I am on the most reasonable side. The one that does not say that the CDC is correct just because or that vaccines are causing autism. I am on the side of truth and honesty. I am one of the very few to balance the good of vaccines and the potential harm that it causes some (fact) and potentially more than the CDC and such will admit, or might even understand due to various reasons from longevity of results, under-reporting of adverse effects and a conspiracy to make money (Big Pharma).

    What side are you on?
    If you are facing off against the entire medical community, and if you do not even have a medical education yourself, and if the most famous spokesman for your cause is a Playbody model, you are most certainly not on the "most reasonable side."

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    ADHD isn't rapidly rising. There was a significant increase in ADHD diagnoses and prescription of medication to treat it in the 1990s, but there's evidence to suggest that these were misdiagnoses and that the medication wasn't necessary. Also I thought vaccines were supposed to magically create autism, not ADHD.
    I never claimed that autism was caused by vaccines... although SIDS and ADHD might be. Since nobody knows either way it is a reasonable question.

    How do you know it's happening if no one is reporting it?
    Because our doctor did not report it for one and because I have talked to doctors who openly admit they do not report adverse reactions... that being said:

    [I]VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors.

    "Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely. As an example, a great many of the millions of vaccinations administered each year by injection cause soreness, but relatively few of these episodes lead to a VAERS report. Physicians and patients understand that minor side effects of vaccinations often include this kind of discomfort, as well as low fevers. On the other hand, more serious and unexpected medical events are probably more likely to be reported than minor ones, especially when they occur soon after vaccination, even if they may be coincidental and related to other causes.

    A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described. It only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given. No proof that the event was caused by the vaccine is required in order for VAERS to accept the report. VAERS accepts all reports without judging whether the event was caused by the vaccine.[I]

    https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

    When I asked our doctor why she did not report it she said that she didn't think of it and that she had never reported any adverse affect just as it states above, even though my daughter had adverse affects stated by the CDC up to and including moderate to severe reactions.

    The under reporting of Vaccine side effects - Vaccine Side Effects

    [I] it is important to recognize that VAERS data alone are usually inadequate for drawing firm conclusions or providing a basis for regulatory actions. Many reports omit important data and/or contain obvious errors that may not be easily identifiable or correctable. Multiple vaccines are frequently administered simultaneously, according to currently recommended vaccine schedules, making it difficult or impossible to determine which (if any) of the vaccines administered was the possible cause of the event.

    The extent of under-reporting of events occurring after vaccination is unknown, and the number of individuals in subgroups of interest (for example, infants) receiving the vaccine during specific time intervals is not known, so that incidence rates cannot be calculated. I]

    Because most of the "questioning" is based on nonsense that has nothing to do with reality.
    That is a truly stupid statement...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    If you are facing off against the entire medical community, and if you do not even have a medical education yourself, and if the most famous spokesman for your cause is a Playbody model, you are most certainly not on the "most reasonable side."
    What is my cause? If you can accurately state that then I will give you another shot.

    If you can't then I will bid you a good day and state that I honestly thought your grey matter had more to it than this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  7. #97
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Different methods but not different vaccines.... I'm assuming by method you mean different ways to administer the vaccine. Can you link all the different measles vaccine varieties for me?
    Certainly.

    Vaccine Allergy: A Closer Look - Allergy Center - Everyday Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Sure if I were willing to gamble the lives of my kids on 99% change they won't die. And that was just the US statistics - that's not even counting the number of vaccines that may have been tainted where people have been injured or died. My point isn't about the 1% - my point is that when it's your kid, you don't gamble. Knowing what is going into our bodies and having the option to say "no" is a natural right. You seem to not agree - or am I not understanding your position correctly?
    My point is not vaccinating your children is a riskier gamble than vaccinating them. As shown with the stats you provided that is in fact the case. If you don't want to risk your children's life, vaccinate them. It's really just as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You don't speak for most parents - and given the choice of course getting a polio vaccine would be preferred. I'm just saying it's not for everyone - there are legitimate reasons why some kids are not vaccinated. Vaccines aren't big government, but big government sets the rules that you must do ... a, b, c,. I'm saying it's still a choice and if the government doesn't accept that they can go screw.
    It's a choice sure, but it is a choice that has now showing to be wildly fatal and harmful to society at large. Look at the recent outbreak in the OP. Look at all the outbreaks in the past few years of diseases that we have vaccines for. Honestly you could turn this argument around on anything related to child care.
    The GOP loves standards. They love standards so much, they got two of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I say that he [Trump] is the most honest guy to come down the pike in a very long while.

  8. #98
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Scroll up this thread and see who started with the insults.
    Oh man, I guess I really should apologize to John Doe. After all I'm sure he's feelings are going to get hurt when John finds out he isn't a real person.
    The GOP loves standards. They love standards so much, they got two of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I say that he [Trump] is the most honest guy to come down the pike in a very long while.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    What is my cause? If you can accurately state that then I will give you another shot.

    If you can't then I will bid you a good day and state that I honestly thought your grey matter had more to it than this...
    If your position is more nuanced than being an antivaxxer then let's hear it. I don't feel like playing twenty questions.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It can be fatal, yes.
    Also potentially fatal: showering, taking the elevator, riding a tricycle, raking leaves.

    In the unlikely event that you actually get measles, the chances of you dying from it are about the same as your chances of dying while hanging out at a dance party.

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