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Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CAPPI
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disneydude
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
Anyone who thinks he isn't going to veto this is a fool.
Anyone who thinks he isn't going to veto this is a fool.
disneydude
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
So what? Its not an issue that most voters really care that strongly about one way or the other. He'll veto it and in a week....no one will care except for the Republicans that hoped to make some political points that never materialized. Yawn......
So what? Its not an issue that most voters really care that strongly about one way or the other. He'll veto it and in a week....no one will care except for the Republicans that hoped to make some political points that never materialized. Yawn......
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
You hope so but not necessarily so.
You hope so but not necessarily so.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
Well, that'd be according to you. I've not said that I believe that he'll veto it, and I've not said that he would.
All I've said is that he hasn't yet, which, last I checked, is factual.
Of course, now that everyone's remembering what cheap gas is like, and I'm sure do like it, how are they going to interpret Obama's the veto of the XL bill? (Never mind what his Sec of Energy said oh so long ago). How would that veto set the stage for the Democratic primary candidates? Put them at a disadvantage? Maybe. Maybe not?
Well, that'd be according to you. I've not said that I believe that he'll veto it, and I've not said that he would.
All I've said is that he hasn't yet, which, last I checked, is factual.
Of course, now that everyone's remembering what cheap gas is like, and I'm sure do like it, how are they going to interpret Obama's the veto of the XL bill? (Never mind what his Sec of Energy said oh so long ago). How would that veto set the stage for the Democratic primary candidates? Put them at a disadvantage? Maybe. Maybe not?
disneydude
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
As for cheap gas. the pipeline will have little to no effect on the price of gas. Its a drop in the bucket.....
I wasn't commenting on you specifically. I was commenting on anyone naïve enough to believe that Obama isn't going to Veto this. Its a done deal.
As for cheap gas. the pipeline will have little to no effect on the price of gas. Its a drop in the bucket.....
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
Okay, NP....you seem to be in favor of this pipeline.
Aren't you uneasy that a foreign corporation is using eminent domain to force US citizens to relinquish their property rights?
Doesn't that bother you a little?
Okay, NP....you seem to be in favor of this pipeline.
Aren't you uneasy that a foreign corporation is using eminent domain to force US citizens to relinquish their property rights?
Doesn't that bother you a little?
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
It sure bothers the Republican farmers/ranchers whose land will be divided .
It sure bothers the Republican farmers/ranchers whose land will be divided .
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
I still find it interesting that conservatives support stealing land from people and giving that land to private organizations. Are these conservatives aware eminent domain was only meant to be used by the government for public use? It was not meant to be used to expand private enterprise.
I still find it interesting that conservatives support stealing land from people and giving that land to private organizations. Are these conservatives aware eminent domain was only meant to be used by the government for public use? It was not meant to be used to expand private enterprise.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
I'm not a big fan of the eminent domain process.
I think it's been misused and abused in certain instances, but the idea of a foreign entity using the process is particularly revolting.
As it should.
I'm not a big fan of the eminent domain process.
I think it's been misused and abused in certain instances, but the idea of a foreign entity using the process is particularly revolting.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
I think if the argument was framed as a property rights issue they might feel differently.
As it stands, the argument seems to be that the Dems are against it, so we conservatives must support it.:shrug:
I think if the argument was framed as a property rights issue they might feel differently.
As it stands, the argument seems to be that the Dems are against it, so we conservatives must support it.:shrug:
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
I'm honestly confused as to how this has become such a polarized issue. From my limited understanding of the issue (which very well may be wrong), allowing this pipeline to be built would amount to a foreign company using eminent domain in the US to build on and transport product that is mainly for export to foreign markets, all while creating very few permanent jobs in the process. Whatever one's lean may be, it doesn't sound like a particularly good deal for the US.
I'm honestly confused as to how this has become such a polarized issue. From my limited understanding of the issue (which very well may be wrong), allowing this pipeline to be built would amount to a foreign company using eminent domain in the US to build on and transport product that is mainly for export to foreign markets, all while creating very few permanent jobs in the process. Whatever one's lean may be, it doesn't sound like a particularly good deal for the US.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
The shipment of crude to Korea has zero to do with the Keystone pipeline. The Koreans are preparing for the eventuality of the Northern Gateway pipeline that will transport oilsands bitumen from the Canadian prairies through the Rockies to the west coast of British Colombia, entirely within Canada, for shipment to markets in Asia.
The folly is that Americans have been snookered into believing that Keystone is some big environmental red line that must be defended against while it is just one of many projects. Canada is also moving forward with the Energy East project which will be shipping oilsands bitumen to Canadian refineries in Quebec and New Brunswick and refined oil will then be consumed in Canada and/or shipped to European markets.
The world, capitalism, markets and advancement, don't stand still while a petty despot in Washington, trying to be relevant, tilts against windmills.
The shipment of crude to Korea has zero to do with the Keystone pipeline. The Koreans are preparing for the eventuality of the Northern Gateway pipeline that will transport oilsands bitumen from the Canadian prairies through the Rockies to the west coast of British Colombia, entirely within Canada, for shipment to markets in Asia.
The folly is that Americans have been snookered into believing that Keystone is some big environmental red line that must be defended against while it is just one of many projects. Canada is also moving forward with the Energy East project which will be shipping oilsands bitumen to Canadian refineries in Quebec and New Brunswick and refined oil will then be consumed in Canada and/or shipped to European markets.
The world, capitalism, markets and advancement, don't stand still while a petty despot in Washington, trying to be relevant, tilts against windmills.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL pipeline
The argument that it will increase cost of oil/gas is not without some merit because Canada has been forced to sell the oilsands bitumen to US refineries in the American midwest at below world market values because of the landlocked nature of where the oil originates and they are the cheapest transportation location without pipelines. From the American midwest refineries, cheaper than world market oil is consumed in those surrounding markets for much the same reason - the refined product is landlocked in the American midwest. Those American refineries in the midwest would no longer be held hostage and would also use the Keystone pipelines to transport their product to markets paying world market prices. Once the pipelines are in place, the oil can be more easily shipped to other refineries, paying world market prices. The Keystone pipeline will more economically and safely ship the oil to the American gulf coast refineries and other pipelines in Canada will ship the oil east and west through Canada to Canadian refineries and Asian refineries.
That is just a small part of what Americans and others pay for the finished product. People in these areas benefit from cheaper oil than others do, strictly because of circumstance. But you are right that a reduction in the overall cost and efficiency of producing the finished product will reduce prices at the pump, if that's what governments want.
The argument that it will increase cost of oil/gas is not without some merit because Canada has been forced to sell the oilsands bitumen to US refineries in the American midwest at below world market values because of the landlocked nature of where the oil originates and they are the cheapest transportation location without pipelines. From the American midwest refineries, cheaper than world market oil is consumed in those surrounding markets for much the same reason - the refined product is landlocked in the American midwest. Those American refineries in the midwest would no longer be held hostage and would also use the Keystone pipelines to transport their product to markets paying world market prices. Once the pipelines are in place, the oil can be more easily shipped to other refineries, paying world market prices. The Keystone pipeline will more economically and safely ship the oil to the American gulf coast refineries and other pipelines in Canada will ship the oil east and west through Canada to Canadian refineries and Asian refineries.
That is just a small part of what Americans and others pay for the finished product. People in these areas benefit from cheaper oil than others do, strictly because of circumstance. But you are right that a reduction in the overall cost and efficiency of producing the finished product will reduce prices at the pump, if that's what governments want.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
To be fair, and truthful, no foreign corporation is using eminent domain to force US citizens to do anything. A foreign corporation partly owned by Americans and American entities, is going through the American approval process just like any other corporation that wishes to do business in America, and American bureaucrats and politicians are making the domain decisions if and when they approve the project. No corporation has the power to take a citizen's land. Governments do that.
To be fair, and truthful, no foreign corporation is using eminent domain to force US citizens to do anything. A foreign corporation partly owned by Americans and American entities, is going through the American approval process just like any other corporation that wishes to do business in America, and American bureaucrats and politicians are making the domain decisions if and when they approve the project. No corporation has the power to take a citizen's land. Governments do that.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
Oh, that the latest excuse?
Oh, that the latest excuse?
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
Eminent Domain....in my opinion, the darkest hour in the history of this country's Supreme Court. If I could overturn any SCOTUS ruling, that would be it in a heartbeat. And to me it shouldn't matter that we're talking about the government being granted the right to steal land for private enterprise use versus public use. Does that somehow make it worse?
Eminent Domain....in my opinion, the darkest hour in the history of this country's Supreme Court. If I could overturn any SCOTUS ruling, that would be it in a heartbeat. And to me it shouldn't matter that we're talking about the government being granted the right to steal land for private enterprise use versus public use. Does that somehow make it worse?
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
He said you could keep your doctor if you liked your doctor. He said he would close Gitmo in a year after taking office. He said we doubled the distance our cars run on a gallon of gas. We can go on and on.
I don't care one way or another how this turns out but it's naïve at best to assume what will happen because of what Obama "said".
He said you could keep your doctor if you liked your doctor. He said he would close Gitmo in a year after taking office. He said we doubled the distance our cars run on a gallon of gas. We can go on and on.
I don't care one way or another how this turns out but it's naïve at best to assume what will happen because of what Obama "said".
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
Nobody is "taking" anything from anybody. The ranchers will be paid a lump sum price for the land, probably 50' to 100' wide across their property. The prices I've heard are between $5 and $25 a lineal foot. They will also be paid a pro-rated sum for about five years for crop loss. The pipeline will be installed very quickly and the topsoil will be replaced over it. Within a couple of years, nobody would know it was there without the pipeline markers to prevent digging over it. The ranchers can plant crops and graze cattle over the pipeline just like they did before. The only restrictions will be no ponds and no permanent structures over the pipe.
Many farmers/ranchers jump at the chance to have a pipeline built across their land, just like they do when a cell tower is built on their land. Good, easy money.
Nobody is "taking" anything from anybody. The ranchers will be paid a lump sum price for the land, probably 50' to 100' wide across their property. The prices I've heard are between $5 and $25 a lineal foot. They will also be paid a pro-rated sum for about five years for crop loss. The pipeline will be installed very quickly and the topsoil will be replaced over it. Within a couple of years, nobody would know it was there without the pipeline markers to prevent digging over it. The ranchers can plant crops and graze cattle over the pipeline just like they did before. The only restrictions will be no ponds and no permanent structures over the pipe.
Many farmers/ranchers jump at the chance to have a pipeline built across their land, just like they do when a cell tower is built on their land. Good, easy money.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
I agree. Most people don't realize that it was the liberals on the court who ruled that eminent domain could be used for private enterprise and conservatives on the court dissented.
I agree. Most people don't realize that it was the liberals on the court who ruled that eminent domain could be used for private enterprise and conservatives on the court dissented.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
That's all well and good, but it takes just 1 who doesn't want it on his land to make it wrong. The idea of using eminent domain for a foreign private company is appalling.
That's all well and good, but it takes just 1 who doesn't want it on his land to make it wrong. The idea of using eminent domain for a foreign private company is appalling.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
Yup, exactly right. I always wonder when Liberals scream about corporations stealing from the little guy and blah blah why they don't scream concurrently about the Liberals on the bench enabling it through that ruling.
Yup, exactly right. I always wonder when Liberals scream about corporations stealing from the little guy and blah blah why they don't scream concurrently about the Liberals on the bench enabling it through that ruling.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
I have mixed feelings on this. Should one person be able to prevent a major project that could bring money and prosperity to a region with few resources ??
A few years ago, Hyundai announced plans to build a major plant near here. It would employ thousands of people directly, not counting the support plants that would employ even more. Everyone that owned land in the proposed site agreed to sell, except for one person. They refused. This was before the liberals on the SC ruled that eminent domain could be used for private businesses. Of course Hyundai decided to build their plant in Alabama instead of Kentucky. Thousands of high paying jobs and tax money were lost.
I don't think that person who refused to sell is a very popular person these days.
I have mixed feelings on this. Should one person be able to prevent a major project that could bring money and prosperity to a region with few resources ??
A few years ago, Hyundai announced plans to build a major plant near here. It would employ thousands of people directly, not counting the support plants that would employ even more. Everyone that owned land in the proposed site agreed to sell, except for one person. They refused. This was before the liberals on the SC ruled that eminent domain could be used for private businesses. Of course Hyundai decided to build their plant in Alabama instead of Kentucky. Thousands of high paying jobs and tax money were lost.
I don't think that person who refused to sell is a very popular person these days.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
That may be the reality, but I don't think that's that everyone's conclusion is going to be. Remember, these are the folks who don't read newspapers, or watch TV news. They get the information they base their opinions from FB, Twitter, etc.
That may be the reality, but I don't think that's that everyone's conclusion is going to be. Remember, these are the folks who don't read newspapers, or watch TV news. They get the information they base their opinions from FB, Twitter, etc.
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Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA
It's a distinction without a difference IMO. Bottom line is landowners are being ordered to allow a purely for profit entity to seize their land for private use. What's the public benefit? The private benefits flow primarily to Canadian oil companies and Keystone. Some refineries in Texas will benefit. For what public purpose must a landowner in Nebraska be forced to make that happen?
It's a distinction without a difference IMO. Bottom line is landowners are being ordered to allow a purely for profit entity to seize their land for private use. What's the public benefit? The private benefits flow primarily to Canadian oil companies and Keystone. Some refineries in Texas will benefit. For what public purpose must a landowner in Nebraska be forced to make that happen?