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Thread: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CAPPI

  1. #191
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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I don't think we're having the same conversation, because I have no idea what the point of that is. You're pointing out that Keystone will do the absolute bare minimum required - pay to take your land and "assume liability" for their own screw ups. And....
    Yes. Your point?
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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The route actually is NOT negotiated with the landowners. That's sort of the whole point of this part of the discussion.
    At the macro level the route is indeed set. At the micro level it is negotiated; i.e., it won't run through anyone's "front yard."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    You really thought that was a convincing argument? You show one in total chaos and the other going well, and that's your argument that one is better than the other. A train crash vs a park.

    Genius argument.
    Total chaos ??? And you claim I didn't have a convincing argument ??


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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yes, I imagine ignorance does make some conservatives lives easier. We have a pipeline through our farm, and power lines. And I don't live in the city, and probably spend more time outdoors than you do - what I do (mostly) for recreation is hiking, biking, fishing, and some hunting.
    Based on your naive comments, I'm calling BS on the above.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    At the macro level the route is indeed set. At the micro level it is negotiated; i.e., it won't run through anyone's "front yard."
    But in this negotiation the pipeline company has the power to compel the landowner to accept the pipeline's terms. It's a "negotiation" in the same sense a child negotiates her weekly allowance with her parents.

    You're trying hard to miss the point - not really sure why.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Based on your naive comments, I'm calling BS on the above.
    Uh, OK, that's legitimate! LMAO.

    Just curious, which part or parts am I supposedly lying about?

    BTW, so you don't care about property rights. Especially if defending property rights forces you on the same side of an issue with liberals. Got it!!

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You are embarrassing yourself. I encourage you to read up on the subject before you dig yourself in deeper.

    The land is immediately usable after the pipeline is laid. The only restrictions are no ponds and no permanent structures on the easement.
    Not really.

    According to this land owner:

    "When you allow a pipeline to cross your land ,you give up certain rights to it."
    "You can't use it the way you want anymore, "

    From this article:



    “When you allow a pipeline to cross your land, you give up certain rights to it,” Ms. Crawford said. “You can’t use your land the way you want anymore. We didn’t want to do that.”

    But TransCanada did not go away. Their people kept coming back, offering more and more money.

    Then on Aug. 26, 2011, Ms. Crawford received a letter from Keystone, TransCanada’s American subsidiary. The letter made a “final offer” of $21,626. Then, it said, “if Keystone is unable to successfully negotiate the voluntary acquisition of the necessary easements, it will have to resort to the exercise of its statutory right of eminent domain.”

    “In other words,” Ms. Crawford said, “sign or we’ll take it.”

    The deadline on the offer was three days later. When she read the letter, Ms. Crawford said, “I panicked. I didn’t know if that meant they were going to take just the pipeline easement, or the whole pasture, or the whole farm.”

    Ms. Crawford, 52, who serves as the farm’s manager, called the rest of the family. They agreed to sign. “We thought that at least if we signed we’d have some say in what happened,” she said.


    They called the TransCanada representative. “He told us that if we could come up with a contract that worked for both parties, they wouldn’t condemn the land,” Ms. Crawford said.

    So she and her brother spent hours bent over the kitchen table going over the lease agreement, creating a version they could live with. She presented their version to TransCanada.

    “I fully expected them to counter,” she said. “There were about five or six things we wanted, and we would have been happy to take one or two.”

    Then, she said, TransCanada “went full radio silence.” The Crawfords never heard back from them — until October, when they got a letter saying their land had been condemned and a lease awarded to TransCanada.


    But as the Crawfords discovered, when voluntary compensation agreements are not reached, Texas law allows certain private pipeline companies to use the right of eminent domain to force landowners to let pipelines through. This was true even for TransCanada, which has yet to get State Department permission to bring the Keystone XL across the Alberta border.

    The Crawfords’ condemnation hearing happened in front of a district judge. They were not invited to that hearing — landowners in Texas do not get to go to the actual condemnation hearing. They are invited only to the next step, after the condemnation, when a three-person panel of county landowners decides on a value for the property being condemned.

    John Pieratt, Ms. Crawford’s lawyer, told her not to go to that appraisal hearing.

    “These landowners only look at value,” Mr. Pieratt said. “By the time you get there, a judge has already decided to condemn. There’s an argument that just by showing up you agree to their right to take the land.

    “The only way Texas law allows you access to a judge is if you appeal the condemnation.”

    So the Crawfords are appealing.
    Read more:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/us...nted=all&_r=1&
    Last edited by minnie616; 02-01-15 at 11:41 AM.
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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But in this negotiation the pipeline company has the power to compel the landowner to accept the pipeline's terms. It's a "negotiation" in the same sense a child negotiates her weekly allowance with her parents.

    You're trying hard to miss the point - not really sure why.
    There's no point to miss. This is a minor addition to already existing pipeline capacity in the US, many many thousands of miles, and there's no history of unfair treatment of landowners.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Not really.

    According to this land owner:

    "When you allow a pipeline to cross your land ,you give up certain rights to it."
    "You can't use it the way you want anymore, "

    From this article:



    Read more:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/us...nted=all&_r=1&
    "Certain rights", not all rights. I already said they could not build a permanent structure over it or build a pond. Guess that qualifies a "certain rights".

    Big deal, they are handsomely compensated up front and yearly.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Intentionally missing the point I see. What relevance is the relative safety of pipelines versus rail to the question of whether a private company should be given the right to condemn your property for its private use?
    No private company has been given the right to condemn anyone's property. The government is doing that. Your big government takes private property against the owner's will all the time. Why are you complaining about it now? It's done all the time to build wind farms and you never complained about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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