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Thread: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CAPPI

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I still find it interesting that conservatives support stealing land from people and giving that land to private organizations. Are these conservatives aware eminent domain was only meant to be used by the government for public use? It was not meant to be used to expand private enterprise.
    I think if the argument was framed as a property rights issue they might feel differently.
    As it stands, the argument seems to be that the Dems are against it, so we conservatives must support it.
    No matter how cynical I become toward politicians, it's never enough.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    I'm honestly confused as to how this has become such a polarized issue. From my limited understanding of the issue (which very well may be wrong), allowing this pipeline to be built would amount to a foreign company using eminent domain in the US to build on and transport product that is mainly for export to foreign markets, all while creating very few permanent jobs in the process. Whatever one's lean may be, it doesn't sound like a particularly good deal for the US.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Oil from Canada is intended for export primarily to Korea and Latin America. I have read that Korea is already working on refineries that can reprocess the stuff to their needs. Oil is not a standard commodity even though we discuss it that way. It is pretty self-evident what my point is--Koreans and Latin Americans need gas and fuel oils. How many times must we circle the same pole?
    The shipment of crude to Korea has zero to do with the Keystone pipeline. The Koreans are preparing for the eventuality of the Northern Gateway pipeline that will transport oilsands bitumen from the Canadian prairies through the Rockies to the west coast of British Colombia, entirely within Canada, for shipment to markets in Asia.

    The folly is that Americans have been snookered into believing that Keystone is some big environmental red line that must be defended against while it is just one of many projects. Canada is also moving forward with the Energy East project which will be shipping oilsands bitumen to Canadian refineries in Quebec and New Brunswick and refined oil will then be consumed in Canada and/or shipped to European markets.

    The world, capitalism, markets and advancement, don't stand still while a petty despot in Washington, trying to be relevant, tilts against windmills.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw View Post
    This is the airplane vs car phobia. Even though people are exponentially more likely to be killed in a car crash, people are much more anxious if not down right afraid of flying than driving. It is much safer to pipe than truck or rail oil.

    I have heard these ridiculous liberal arguments that the XL will actually increase the cost of oil/gas. I am sure there is, but I cant think of a single example when streamlining and making a distribution system more efficient raised the cost of the product.
    The argument that it will increase cost of oil/gas is not without some merit because Canada has been forced to sell the oilsands bitumen to US refineries in the American midwest at below world market values because of the landlocked nature of where the oil originates and they are the cheapest transportation location without pipelines. From the American midwest refineries, cheaper than world market oil is consumed in those surrounding markets for much the same reason - the refined product is landlocked in the American midwest. Those American refineries in the midwest would no longer be held hostage and would also use the Keystone pipelines to transport their product to markets paying world market prices. Once the pipelines are in place, the oil can be more easily shipped to other refineries, paying world market prices. The Keystone pipeline will more economically and safely ship the oil to the American gulf coast refineries and other pipelines in Canada will ship the oil east and west through Canada to Canadian refineries and Asian refineries.

    That is just a small part of what Americans and others pay for the finished product. People in these areas benefit from cheaper oil than others do, strictly because of circumstance. But you are right that a reduction in the overall cost and efficiency of producing the finished product will reduce prices at the pump, if that's what governments want.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    Okay, NP....you seem to be in favor of this pipeline.
    Aren't you uneasy that a foreign corporation is using eminent domain to force US citizens to relinquish their property rights?
    Doesn't that bother you a little?
    To be fair, and truthful, no foreign corporation is using eminent domain to force US citizens to do anything. A foreign corporation partly owned by Americans and American entities, is going through the American approval process just like any other corporation that wishes to do business in America, and American bureaucrats and politicians are making the domain decisions if and when they approve the project. No corporation has the power to take a citizen's land. Governments do that.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    By "my definition"? My definition is something like FDR's WPA...
    Oh, that the latest excuse?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I still find it interesting that conservatives support stealing land from people and giving that land to private organizations. Are these conservatives aware eminent domain was only meant to be used by the government for public use? It was not meant to be used to expand private enterprise.
    Eminent Domain....in my opinion, the darkest hour in the history of this country's Supreme Court. If I could overturn any SCOTUS ruling, that would be it in a heartbeat. And to me it shouldn't matter that we're talking about the government being granted the right to steal land for private enterprise use versus public use. Does that somehow make it worse?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    He's already said he will veto. This is short-lived. Sorry NP.
    He said you could keep your doctor if you liked your doctor. He said he would close Gitmo in a year after taking office. He said we doubled the distance our cars run on a gallon of gas. We can go on and on.

    I don't care one way or another how this turns out but it's nave at best to assume what will happen because of what Obama "said".
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    Okay, NP....you seem to be in favor of this pipeline.
    Aren't you uneasy that a foreign corporation is using eminent domain to force US citizens to relinquish their property rights?
    Doesn't that bother you a little?
    Nobody is "taking" anything from anybody. The ranchers will be paid a lump sum price for the land, probably 50' to 100' wide across their property. The prices I've heard are between $5 and $25 a lineal foot. They will also be paid a pro-rated sum for about five years for crop loss. The pipeline will be installed very quickly and the topsoil will be replaced over it. Within a couple of years, nobody would know it was there without the pipeline markers to prevent digging over it. The ranchers can plant crops and graze cattle over the pipeline just like they did before. The only restrictions will be no ponds and no permanent structures over the pipe.

    Many farmers/ranchers jump at the chance to have a pipeline built across their land, just like they do when a cell tower is built on their land. Good, easy money.

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    Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Eminent Domain....in my opinion, the darkest hour in the history of this country's Supreme Court. If I could overturn any SCOTUS ruling, that would be it in a heartbeat. And to me it shouldn't matter that we're talking about the government being granted the right to steal land for private enterprise use versus public use. Does that somehow make it worse?
    I agree. Most people don't realize that it was the liberals on the court who ruled that eminent domain could be used for private enterprise and conservatives on the court dissented.

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