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Greece’s new prime minister wants Germany to pay for Nazi war crimes

:shrug: the modern German state didn't occupy Greece anymore than the modern Italian state occupied Germany.



Greece is angrily grasping at straws, throwing a tantrum to refuse to acknowledge that the gravy train can end. I look forward to seeing how it goes for them. :popcorn2:

Would it not be just as true to say that the modern german state did not commit the holocaust (and yet still pays for it, as well it should)?
 
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After the seismic victory of Greece’s leftist Syriza party in national polling Sunday, the country’s new prime minister, 40-year-old Alexis Tsipras, is leading all of Europe down an uncertain path.

Syriza has vowed to renegotiate the crippling debts saddled on the Greek economy by European lenders — a move that some fear could threaten the unity of the eurozone. Tsipras and his allies, meanwhile, see their ascension as a historic opportunity, as WorldViews discussed here




Syriza, in particular, has been outspoken about the need for Germany to atone for its past in Greece, or at least show a bit more leniency now as compensation. Tsipras has campaigned on the issue for more than a year, including in the build-up to Sunday's election. "We are going to demand debt reduction, and the money Germany owes us from World War II, including reparations," he said earlier this month.

A 2013 study carried out by the previous Greek government of defeated Prime Minister Antonis Samaras estimated that Germany owed Greece some $200 billion for damages incurred during the Nazi occupation, the cost of rebuilding destroyed infrastructure as well as loans Nazi authorities forced Greece to pay between 1942 and 1944. The Samaras government, whose critics accused of being handmaidens to Brussels' harsh mandates, did little with the report. Another advocacy group claims that the sum owed to Greece could be as much as $677 billion.

Greece’s new prime minister wants Germany to pay for Nazi war crimes - The Washington Post


LMAO !!!

What a friken low life !! Socialist are some of the most mortally bankrupt people on this face of this earth

He's using the death of his Country men to justify welching on Greece's massive debts

What a scumbag. If I were Greek I would be so embarrassed.
 
Boy, Greece is so up the creek electing this clown. Do they not see what's going to happen to them? Socialists do not know the first thing in creating wealth, they're only good at stealing it, or in this case, attempting too.

Joke!


Tim-
 
"Greece’s new prime minister wants Germany to pay for Nazi war crimes"

He may want to tread lightly lest the Germans call in the loans.

Or vice versa
 
Or vice versa

Yep, Greece has Germany over a barrel.

Now they're trying to save face with the latest low life tactic of bringing up War crimes but why I have no idea.

Its bad enough that they're refusing to pay back their debt.
Now they've added insult to injury because no one in their right mind actually thinks Germany should pay them for War crimes that happened 70 years ago.

Everyone can see through this childish and chicken **** attempt to demonize a Nation who just happens to be their biggest creditor.

Greece should just tell Germany and their banks that they're not getting their money back and be done with it.
 
After the seismic victory of Greece’s leftist Syriza party in national polling Sunday, the country’s new prime minister, 40-year-old Alexis Tsipras, is leading all of Europe down an uncertain path.

Syriza has vowed to renegotiate the crippling debts saddled on the Greek economy by European lenders — a move that some fear could threaten the unity of the eurozone. Tsipras and his allies, meanwhile, see their ascension as a historic opportunity, as WorldViews discussed here




Syriza, in particular, has been outspoken about the need for Germany to atone for its past in Greece, or at least show a bit more leniency now as compensation. Tsipras has campaigned on the issue for more than a year, including in the build-up to Sunday's election. "We are going to demand debt reduction, and the money Germany owes us from World War II, including reparations," he said earlier this month.

A 2013 study carried out by the previous Greek government of defeated Prime Minister Antonis Samaras estimated that Germany owed Greece some $200 billion for damages incurred during the Nazi occupation, the cost of rebuilding destroyed infrastructure as well as loans Nazi authorities forced Greece to pay between 1942 and 1944. The Samaras government, whose critics accused of being handmaidens to Brussels' harsh mandates, did little with the report. Another advocacy group claims that the sum owed to Greece could be as much as $677 billion.

Greece’s new prime minister wants Germany to pay for Nazi war crimes - The Washington Post
The man is an avowed kook Socialist playing off populist anger trying to divert blame for Greece's financial failure on anyone BUT the people and government of Greece.
 
Yep, Greece has Germany over a barrel.

Now they're trying to save face with the latest low life tactic of bringing up War crimes but why I have no idea.

Its bad enough that they're refusing to pay back their debt.
Now they've added insult to injury because no one in their right mind actually thinks Germany should pay them for War crimes that happened 70 years ago.

Everyone can see through this childish and chicken **** attempt to demonize a Nation who just happens to be their biggest creditor.

Greece should just tell Germany and their banks that they're not getting their money back and be done with it.

Why is Greece responsible for debt accured 20 years ago and Germany not responsible for a war that happened 70 years ago? When is the cut off date? (indeed Haiti was still repaying France for the slaves it lost during the revolution untill 1948) Syriza has never insisted on complete non payment , just on renegotiation. Which should be accepted by a nation that had its own debt written off by Spain (ironically) and benefitted substantially from the Marshall plan after the war it started, whereas Greece got nothing despite suffering some of the heaviest losses from a conflict in which it was a victim.
 
The man is an avowed kook Socialist playing off populist anger trying to divert blame for Greece's financial failure on anyone BUT the people and government of Greece.

Kook is too mild for that guy. He's a full on lunatic.

He thinks he's saving face here by pulling this ridiculous stunt. What the hell Greece ?

Its like their citizens have lived far too long under a cradle to the grave system that they've completely lost their ability to discern right and wrong.

They're looking for anyway to justify ripping off their creditors no matter how dishonest and low life it is
 
Kook is too mild for that guy. He's a full on lunatic.

He thinks he's saving face here by pulling this ridiculous stunt. What the hell Greece ?

Its like their citizens have lived far too long under a cradle to the grave system that they've completely lost their ability to discern right and wrong.

They're looking for anyway to justify ripping off their creditors no matter how dishonest and low life it is

Its the end game for all progressive governments.
 
Would it not be just as true to say that the modern german state did not commit the holocaust (and yet still pays for it, as well it should)?

:shrug: that's what they want to do. But the children of holocaust victims are now lining up, and I understand German reticence to extend the benefit ad nauseum.
 
Why is Greece responsible for debt accured 20 years ago and Germany not responsible for a war that happened 70 years ago? When is the cut off date? (indeed Haiti was still repaying France for the slaves it lost during the revolution untill 1948) Syriza has never insisted on complete non payment , just on renegotiation. Which should be accepted by a nation that had its own debt written off by Spain (ironically) and benefitted substantially from the Marshall plan after the war it started, whereas Greece got nothing despite suffering some of the heaviest losses from a conflict in which it was a victim.

LOL !!!

Ridiculous. Your'e comparing a Nation financing future revenues by selling Securities to Nazi atrocities !! :lamo :lamo :lamo

Wow ! Hey, Germany DID pay for their actions. What, they don't have History Books in Greece ?

Greece is responsible for its debt because it's contractually and legally obligate to pay back it's creditors. Greece is responsible for its debt because not stiffing your creditors is what responsible grown up individuals do. Greece is acting like a bratty child who's being forced to make amends for its mistakes. It's literally throwing a temper tantrum, that's being heard the world over.

Plus, the Greeks just elected the same type of people, ( Socialist ) who drove them into massive debt in the first place.

It's not Germany's fault Greece entered into the Union under false pretenses, violated the terms of the Treaty THEY SIGNED, ran up massive deficits that exceeded the limitations THEY AGREED TO in the Maasticht Treaty and then lied to everyone by refusing to disclose their financial issues until it was too late.

Trying to justify NOT paying back your debt by using a War that ended 70 years ago, and exploiting the deaths of your own Countrymen to justify what's essentially FRAUD is a particularity low life thing to do. It's no surprise that this their new PM would resort to these antics.

He IS a Socialist.
 
He IS a Socialist.

Since you like to bring up Germany up and the party affiliation Tsparis is from, Do you know who were also socialists who got Germany out of their debt and economic crisis? The SPD.
 
All this demonstrates to me is that a person can win an election in Greece by promising free stuff to the population paid for by other peoples money. I guess if the Greeks are gullible enough to believe that any of these promises will ever come to fruition they are going to get exactly what they deserve.

Wow, that sounds familiar.
 
:shrug: that's what they want to do. But the children of holocaust victims are now lining up, and I understand German reticence to extend the benefit ad nauseum.

Lining up? sorry you´ve lost me. Germany still sends reparations to the state of Israel to this day, as much as direct compensation would be preferable
 
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LOL !!!

Wow ! Hey, Germany DID pay for their actions. What, they don't have History Books in Greece ?

Greece is responsible for its debt because it's contractually and legally obligate to pay back it's creditors. Greece is responsible for its debt because not stiffing your creditors is what responsible grown up individuals do. Greece is acting like a bratty child who's being forced to make amends for its mistakes. It's literally throwing a temper tantrum, that's being heard the world over.

When did Germany pay for its actions?

The Greek politicians who took out loans without public consoltation (often misleading the public, and at some point under military rule) are responsible, but i don´t see why the Greek people should suffer for decisions they where purposefully excluded from. Indeed even when the Greek PM wanted to put the latest bailout to a referendum Merkel threatend to call it off. And again what Syriza is calling for isnt necessary complete non payment, Britain was still paying for the War/Marshall plan untill 2006, surely similar leniancy could be applied to Greece, avoiding cuts that merely make the situation worse.
 
. . . . . Everyone can see through this childish and chicken **** attempt to demonize a Nation who just happens to be their biggest creditor.

Greece should just tell Germany and their banks that they're not getting their money back and be done with it.

And that is the whole story in a nutshell.
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:shrug: the modern German state didn't occupy Greece anymore than the modern Italian state occupied Germany.



Greece is angrily grasping at straws, throwing a tantrum to refuse to acknowledge that the gravy train can end. I look forward to seeing how it goes for them. :popcorn2:

Yes, this is a political ploy by the new govt there. But they do have a point...

i guess postwar germany shouldn't have paid poland that $640 billion either huh. Just encouraged a gravy train of laziness, after destroying 60% of poland's industry and murdering 16% of its citizens, amiright. Why should poland be reimbursed but not greece ever?

The fact postwar germany from the start neglected to at least attempt to compensate for 6 million deaths in the camps isn't a defense for not having to do so now either. If anything, it makes them more guilty.

There's still people alive today who endured the nazi occupation, quite unlike ancient rome. If some of the debt owed by Greece extends into 1940s, why should Greece be any more responsible to pay that debt than germany is to pay for the destruction its armies wrought in an unprovoked attack?

Crazy analogies is not the best strategy to deflate the point that indeed, a nation with boundaries, ancestry, language, and government offices identical to that of mere decades ago should have to atone and pay reparations for the crimes against humanity committed mere decades ago. I mean does rome still have a ceasar? Does the population speak latin? Was anything destroyed in germania 2000 years ago even worth anything and would it still be around?

Frankly germany should kiss ass that the Morgenthau Plan didn't go into effect, which would have sent it back to middle ages.

The real question to me is whether greece still suffers in some way economically due to the invasion in 1940. If not, the only liability would be reparations to individuals still living who suffered, or their children who lost parents etc, basically a normal lawsuit where the responsible party pays damages.
 
Why is Greece responsible for debt accured 20 years ago and Germany not responsible for a war that happened 70 years ago? When is the cut off date? (indeed Haiti was still repaying France for the slaves it lost during the revolution untill 1948) Syriza has never insisted on complete non payment , just on renegotiation. Which should be accepted by a nation that had its own debt written off by Spain (ironically) and benefitted substantially from the Marshall plan after the war it started, whereas Greece got nothing despite suffering some of the heaviest losses from a conflict in which it was a victim.



there's no room for logic and actual historical context, when rhetoric, vitriol, and general ignorance can be bandied about


/proud to have predicted the day after election he would do this
// was laughed on
 
The real question to me is whether greece still suffers in some way economically due to the invasion in 1940. If not, the only liability would be reparations to individuals still living who suffered, or their children who lost parents etc, basically a normal lawsuit where the responsible party pays damages.



Considering the war created (some say it was fomenting prior) the real impetus of a power vaccuum that allowed return of the Monarchy and then the later WvE proxy state idealism ColdWar via the Greek Civil War, which in turn created a political, and economic destabilization of the country until the end of the junta and fall of the Monarchy... nearly 30 years later (almost 2 lost generations).

Uh yes.
 
:shrug: that's what they want to do. But the children of holocaust victims are now lining up, and I understand German reticence to extend the benefit ad nauseum.

wow how christian of you, attacking the children of holocaust victims....oh wait, carry on

usual tactic of the guilty who don't regret their actions: Let's avoid paying our victims until they die off, then we can claim too much time has passed! Let's not pay reparations to slaves, and when the jim crow era blacks die, we can mock their children as leeches whining for handouts too!
 
Yes, this is a political ploy by the new govt there. But they do have a point...

I call BS. If this was an actual issue for the Greeks, they've had decades to bring it up.

i guess postwar germany shouldn't have paid poland that $640 billion either huh. Just encouraged a gravy train of laziness, after destroying 60% of poland's industry and murdering 16% of its citizens, amiright. Why should poland be reimbursed but not greece ever?

The fact postwar germany from the start neglected to at least attempt to compensate for 6 million deaths in the camps isn't a defense for not having to do so now either. If anything, it makes them more guilty.

There's still people alive today who endured the nazi occupation, quite unlike ancient rome. If some of the debt owed by Greece extends into 1940s, why should Greece be any more responsible to pay that debt than germany is to pay for the destruction its armies wrought in an unprovoked attack?

Crazy analogies is not the best strategy to deflate the point that indeed, a nation with boundaries, ancestry, language, and government offices identical to that of mere decades ago should have to atone and pay reparations for the crimes against humanity committed mere decades ago. I mean does rome still have a ceasar? Does the population speak latin? Was anything destroyed in germania 2000 years ago even worth anything and would it still be around?

Frankly germany should kiss ass that the Morgenthau Plan didn't go into effect, which would have sent it back to middle ages.

No. We tried that in 1918, remember? It would have sent them straight into WWIII.
 
wow how christian of you, attacking the children of holocaust victims....oh wait, carry on

usual tactic of the guilty who don't regret their actions: Let's avoid paying our victims until they die off, then we can claim too much time has passed! Let's not pay reparations to slaves, and when the jim crow era blacks die, we can mock their children as leeches whining for handouts too!

.....not sure if self-parodying, or actually just truly that intellectually disconnected.....
 
I call BS. If this was an actual issue for the Greeks, they've had decades to bring it up.

they probably did but weren't so on the verge of bankruptcy that they were willing to make international scene about it.

No. We tried that in 1918, remember? It would have sent them straight into WWIII.

versailles? Well the whole point of Morgenthau was to absolutely cripple the german industry so they can never wage war again. Some of the advisers were eagerly anticipating turning germany into agrarian country. However, when this leaked it sort of backfired because Goebbels used it to inspire germans to fight to the end.
 
.....not sure if self-parodying, or actually just truly that intellectually disconnected.....

right, you're not at all playing into hands of the holocaust deniers and enablers by saying "too much time has passed, no one has to ever pay for this atrocity"
 
right, you're not at all playing into hands of the holocaust deniers and enablers by saying "too much time has passed, no one has to ever pay for this atrocity"

Yup. It was definitely the second.
 
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