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Michelle Obama forgoes a headscarf and sparks a backlash in Saudi Arabia

Good on her. I think the appropriate response from her should be "its cute that you think I should do that."

When we were there, women were not required to wear head scarves. The only accommodation our military women made was that they were allowed to wear their hats indoors if they chose to. This had an impact in bartering and haggling over purchase prices. Not much else. Even those that chose to wear a head scarf where seen with disrespect. I understan for a time later that the military had all the women covering their heads. Dont know if that is still the practice.
 
Hmmm, so what you're saying is that Michelle Obama going against the social norms established by the Saudi royal family... will be a positive for our relationship with the Saudi royal family? Right?

....are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really lack the reading comprehension to understand the phrase actions that insult or damage relations with our allies can have positive purpose?
 
SO...some cool things in that video actually. 1-They were just getting off the plane. 2-The woman in black also was uncovered. 3-During the playing of the US national anthem our flag was given equal status on the flagpole and their military personnel rendered proper respect and protocol.

Much ado about nothing.
 
....are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really lack the reading comprehension to understand the phrase actions that insult or damage relations with our allies can have positive purpose?

Too many abstracts in your sentence. I asked you to clarify whether that "positive purpose" has anything to do with our actual relationship with the Saudis.
 
Some women are not to be messed with.. What I like about this is how black African heritage peoples are seen in Arab countries and this one threw local custom back in their face.

reminded me of this story -



Too bad Michelle O wasn't given the opportunity to drive the motorcade but I'm certainly glad she didn't stand the prerequisite 10 feet behind her man

I guess in some quarters "paying respects" involves insulting those you are paying respect to. What's the point?

Perhaps better not to go at all.
 
Too many abstracts in your sentence. I asked you to clarify whether that "positive purpose" has anything to do with our actual relationship with the Saudis.

Nope. It simply is a passive refusal to actively suborn the First Family to the point that they reinforce the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia.


Remember when conservatives got a bit ticked because it looked like Obama bowed to the Saudi king? This is the opposite of that.
 
I agree with generally following the customs of the country you visit...but as one poster said...the headscarf is about subjugation, not some cultural dress.
 
Nope. It simply is a passive refusal to actively suborn the First Family to the point that they reinforce the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia.

Which... is ... positive or negative for our relationship with them? :)

Remember when conservatives got a bit ticked because it looked like Obama bowed to the Saudi king? This is the opposite of that.

So abiding by the customs of our allies is bad... not abiding by their customs is good for our relationship with them?
 
I guess in some quarters "paying respects" involves insulting those you are paying respect to. What's the point?

Perhaps better not to go at all.

So if a Saudi Arabian queen came to the US for a funeral she should take off her head-covering to please us or not come at all? How horribly insulting that would be to the American people if she came anyway!

I think you're purposely being obnoxious.
 
Which... is ... positive or negative for our relationship with them? :)



So abiding by the customs of our allies is bad... not abiding by their customs is good for our relationship with them?

The only way this can really be seen as a negative is if the Saudis get hold of the pictures of her choosing to wear the head scarves in India and not SA. But even then...come on...she is a woman. She isnt really relevant to the important discussions of men.
 
So if a Saudi Arabian queen came to the US for a funeral she should take of her hijab to please us or not come at all? I think you're purposely being obnoxious.

He's actually being wonderfully consistent. The stances some Conservatives have taken when it comes to "insulting" our allies make his position the only one they can take if they want to avoid being called out for being hypocrites. CanadaJohn's position may not be the greatest, but it is consistent.
 
The only way this can really be seen as a negative is if the Saudis get hold of the pictures of her choosing to wear the head scarves in India and not SA. But even then...come on...she is a woman. She isnt really relevant to the important discussions of men.

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:lol:
 
So if a Saudi Arabian queen came to the US for a funeral she should take off her head-covering to please us or not come at all? How horribly insulting that would be to the American people if she came anyway!

I think you're purposely being obnoxious.

Firstly, for whatever reason, I've never seen one of the Saudi Arabian queens even though King Abdullah had about a dozen. I'm pretty sure the Saudi royal queens don't travel.

That said, is there anything particularly offensive about a head scarf? I don't believe it was suggested the First Lady wear a burka or some other full body tarp.

The point I was making, and it's a pretty simple one to understand, if you're not entirely disingenuous in "paying your respects" and not solely intent on using the death of a foreign head of state to make a political statement, why go if you actually have so little respect for the hosts?

And to be clear, showing deference to your hosts is not obnoxious - the opposite is.
 
It causes me no problems. For the first time in my adult life, I'm proud of our First Lady. If Saudi Arabia takes offense to something stupid like that, that's their problem.

Is that unequivocal enough for you?

Cute, I see what you did there.
 
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Laura Bush didn't wear a scarf when she met the Saudi King.
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When in Saudi Arabia do as the Saudis do. They should do as we do when they come here as well.

Just curious, would you expect one of the royal wives to remove her head covering if she came to the US?
 
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Laura Bush didn't wear a scarf when she met the Saudi King.
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Screen_Shot_2015_01_27_at_4_30_22_PM_562x427.png

Thats because the King already had a thing for GWB!
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I always knew she had bigger balls then her husband.
 
Which... is ... positive or negative for our relationship with them?

Meh. Barely negative if it has an effect at all. I would be honestly surprised if it does - it's not as if the Saudi royal family doesn't travel abroad.

So abiding by the customs of our allies is bad... not abiding by their customs is good for our relationship with them?

No. Actions that insult or damage relations with our allies can have positive purpose. That doesn't mean that they will, or that the loss is worth the gain, but in this case, I think you'll be hard pressed to find many Conservatives who think otherwise.
 
When you go to a foreign country-culture you show respect for their traditions. If their traditions are too much for you to deal with then don't go. Michelle should have stayed home or stayed on her luxury 727. This would have said to the world she strongly disagree with the way women are treated in the Arab culture without flaunting it like the ugly American and spitting in their faces.

Where's the 'dislike' button?
 
Meh. Barely negative if it has an effect at all.

So going against the customs established by another nation's leaders is not disrespectful to those nations. Correct?
 
Just curious, would you expect one of the royal wives to remove her head covering if she came to the US?

No, I wouldn't expect it. But that is what should happen in my view.
 
So going against the customs established by another nation's leaders is not disrespectful to those nations. Correct?

In this case, it is unlikely to have any serious negative consequences. Especially given that our relationship with Saudi Arabia is pretty much already at rock-bottom :lol:



Here's your problem. You assumed that conservatives were going to act in what you characterized as an unthinking, oppositional manner. Your assumption failed because you don't, actually, (apparently) understand conservatives. Since that failed, you are now desperately trying to spin it to some kind of hypocrisy charge where conservatives are wrong for saying that insulting an ally is wrong and then not getting upset because the First Lady didn't cover her hair. Again, you are demonstrating that you do not, actually, understand the people whose positions you are attempting to describe. This may be willful, which could be why you keep chopping out the parts of my posts that explain it to you in very simple language, or it could just be honest inability to comprehend something that's cognitively complex - I don't know. So I'll say it again (and you will probably ignore it again): Actions that insult or damage relations with our allies can have positive purpose, which doesn't mean that they will. In this case, it does.

Do you need me to translate that into a bar graph, or a sock puppet show, or something more basic and visual?
 
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