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Thread: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

  1. #11
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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Only a moron would put the blame of the 2008 Financial Crisis at the feet of the lenders

    Greece lied, they misrepresented their Financial position for YEARS so they could sell more debt and pay for a unsustainable Socialist " paradise ".

    Greece is responsible for their corruption, NOT the Banks and not Germany

    Entering into a loan contract with no intention of repaying the principle back is FRAUD.
    I'm going to tell you something. It is clear to me that liberals live in an unsustainable egalitarian utopian fantasy. On the other hand conservatives like you live in another fantasy that is essentially dystopian in nature and is based on the moronic idea that somehow giving everything to the elite of an economic oligarchy results in the best outcome for all. When pressed, all you ever seem to be able to say is that it has always been that way.

    Realistically speaking, of course people should take responsibility for their actions. But I honestly fail to comprehend how someone could really believe that financial institutions should be shielded from the responsibility of their bad decisions. It's just plain crazy. It's really no point in discussing it.

    Here's the type of thing that the untouchable Goldman Sachs engaged in with respect to Greece. Dang!!! Someone really wants to put forward that they bear no responsibility for this type of activity. No wonder the world is in such a mess.

    Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis

    Wall Street tactics akin to the ones that fostered subprime mortgages in America have worsened the financial crisis shaking Greece and undermining the euro by enabling European governments to hide their mounting debts.

    As worries over Greece rattle world markets, records and interviews show that with Wall Street’s help, the nation engaged in a decade-long effort to skirt European debt limits. One deal created by Goldman Sachs helped obscure billions in debt from the budget overseers in Brussels.

    Even as the crisis was nearing the flashpoint, banks were searching for ways to help Greece forestall the day of reckoning. In early November — three months before Athens became the epicenter of global financial anxiety — a team from Goldman Sachs arrived in the ancient city with a very modern proposition for a government struggling to pay its bills, according to two people who were briefed on the meeting.

    The bankers, led by Goldman’s president, Gary D. Cohn, held out a financing instrument that would have pushed debt from Greece’s health care system far into the future, much as when strapped homeowners take out second mortgages to pay off their credit cards.

    It had worked before. In 2001, just after Greece was admitted to Europe’s monetary union, Goldman helped the government quietly borrow billions, people familiar with the transaction said. That deal, hidden from public view because it was treated as a currency trade rather than a loan, helped Athens to meet Europe’s deficit rules while continuing to spend beyond its means.

    ............
    Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis

    This old worn out partisan rhetoric is crap. People need to start discussing things as they are.

  2. #12
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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I'm going to tell you something. It is clear to me that liberals live in an unsustainable egalitarian utopian fantasy. On the other hand conservatives like you live in another fantasy that is essentially dystopian in nature and is based on the moronic idea that somehow giving everything to the elite of an economic oligarchy results in the best outcome for all. When pressed, all you ever seem to be able to say is that it has always been that way.

    Realistically speaking, of course people should take responsibility for their actions. But I honestly fail to comprehend how someone could really believe that financial institutions should be shielded from the responsibility of their bad decisions. It's just plain crazy. It's really no point in discussing it.

    Here's the type of thing that the untouchable Goldman Sachs engaged in with respect to Greece. Dang!!! Someone really wants to put forward that they bear no responsibility for this type of activity. No wonder the world is in such a mess.



    Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis

    This old worn out partisan rhetoric is crap. People need to start discussing things as they are.

    Huh ?

    Wallstreet ? You're blaming the creditors ?

    Thats like blaming the Bank for repossesing your Car because you refused t o make the payments after driving it through 3 feet of water.

    The Cars trash, you know it, but who cares it was the banks fault for giving you the loan.....Lol

    Besides, German Banks hold that vast majoritybof Greece's worthless debt right now. I guess they deserve whats coming to them.

    Here's what your'e defending. The first thing the new Greek PM did was go out and lay a wreath at a WWII memorial.

    It was to memorialize the killing of 200 Greek citizens by the Nazi's over 50 years ago.

    Do you know why he did that ? He's trying to create a Narrative that would justify Greece's welching on their debt.

    He's using the deaths of 200 of his Country men to justify defaulting on his Country's massive debt.

    Socialist are some of the most morally bankrupt individuals on Planet earth.

    And before commenting on the nature of Conservativism you should at least make an attempt to understand its principles.

    Money has pooled in the hands of the few and the wealthiest more in the last 6 years than it has in decades. Its not due to Conservative principles.

    Its due to this cancer called progressivism thats gained traction in Europe and America over the last few years.

    Massive unprecedented Government intervention into the free markets and idiotic policies and regulations for the purpose of mandating economic " justice " and " equality " have caused this massive stagnation of wealth.

    From QE, to Fiscal Stimulus to idiotic laws that target the Middle classes discretionary income and raise taxes on the " rich ". Its one bad idea after another and its creating more disparity.


    Your definition of Conservatism is Literalisms definition of Conservatism.

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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Huh ?

    Wallstreet ? You're blaming the creditors ?

    Thats like blaming the Bank for repossesing your Car because you refused t o make the payments after driving it through 3 feet of water.

    The Cars trash, you know it, but who cares it was the banks fault for giving you the loan.....Lol

    Besides, German Banks hold that vast majoritybof Greece's worthless debt right now. I guess they deserve whats coming to them.

    Here's what your'e defending. The first thing the new Greek PM did was go out and lay a wreath at a WWII memorial.

    It was to memorialize the killing of 200 Greek citizens by the Nazi's over 50 years ago.

    Do you know why he did that ? He's trying to create a Narrative that would justify Greece's welching on their debt.

    He's using the deaths of 200 of his Country men to justify defaulting on his Country's massive debt.

    Socialist are some of the most morally bankrupt individuals on Planet earth.

    And before commenting on the nature of Conservativism you should at least make an attempt to understand its principles.

    Money has pooled in the hands of the few and the wealthiest more in the last 6 years than it has in decades. Its not due to Conservative principles.

    Its due to this cancer called progressivism thats gained traction in Europe and America over the last few years.

    Massive unprecedented Government intervention into the free markets and idiotic policies and regulations for the purpose of mandating economic " justice " and " equality " have caused this massive stagnation of wealth.

    From QE, to Fiscal Stimulus to idiotic laws that target the Middle classes discretionary income and raise taxes on the " rich ". Its one bad idea after another and its creating more disparity.

    Your definition of Conservatism is Literalisms definition of Conservatism.
    Tell you what buddy, I'm going to do both of us a favor and close out my tab here because really, I'm not interested in some stale, partisan, rhetorical contest. My position is this, those that take out loans need to bear the responsibility for their decisions. NOT ONLY THAT, but financial institutions that make bad loans need to take responsibility for their decisions as well. Banks make money by making loans. If they feel that they will be bailed out if they make bad decisions, that simply encourages them to make bad decisions. If someone can't see that. There is really nothing to be said. As I said earlier, it's s ridiculous discussion.

    IMO there needs to be other viable political alternatives than those offered currently by Democrats and Republicans alike. I find neither appealing at this point.

  4. #14
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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Huh ?

    Wallstreet ? You're blaming the creditors ?

    Thats like blaming the Bank for repossesing your Car because you refused t o make the payments after driving it through 3 feet of water.

    The Cars trash, you know it, but who cares it was the banks fault for giving you the loan.....Lol
    What a bs analogy. A more accurate analogy would be placing a bet on a horse in Vegas while fixing the race and letting the jockey take the fall when the rigging is exposed.. by yourself.

    Besides, German Banks hold that vast majoritybof Greece's worthless debt right now. I guess they deserve whats coming to them.
    False. Banks world wide hold about 10% of Greek debt. The rest is held by various countries. Have you even paid attention the last 7 years? You do realize that the whole bailout/hair cut was to get Greek debt off the balance sheets of banks and onto that of nation states..

    Here's what your'e defending. The first thing the new Greek PM did was go out and lay a wreath at a WWII memorial.

    It was to memorialize the killing of 200 Greek citizens by the Nazi's over 50 years ago.
    On the liberation day of Auschwitz.. and what is wrong with that? It was going on all over Europe.

    Do you know why he did that ? He's trying to create a Narrative that would justify Greece's welching on their debt.

    He's using the deaths of 200 of his Country men to justify defaulting on his Country's massive debt.
    LOL now you are reaching big time.

    Socialist are some of the most morally bankrupt individuals on Planet earth.
    Well that is debatable considering in most cases the "conservatives" were deeply involved if not instigating the economic crisis and have since hence run from any responsibility and blamed everyone else. This has happened in the US, Spain, Italy, Greece (some what), France and many other countries. Right wing economic policies based on trickle down theory aka Reaganomics has been the basis of European and American economic policy for almost 30 years. Hell even "left wing" parties took part in the love fest when they were in power.

    And before commenting on the nature of Conservativism you should at least make an attempt to understand its principles.

    Money has pooled in the hands of the few and the wealthiest more in the last 6 years than it has in decades. Its not due to Conservative principles.
    Err yes it is. It is classic Reaganomics.

    Its due to this cancer called progressivism thats gained traction in Europe and America over the last few years.
    So you hate Reagan now? Was he a liberal?

    Massive unprecedented Government intervention into the free markets and idiotic policies and regulations for the purpose of mandating economic " justice " and " equality " have caused this massive stagnation of wealth.
    LOL it was a lack of regulations that caused the crisis in the first place! 60+% of the mortgage loans in 2006 was in the unregulated sub-prime market in the US.. so crap that not even Fannie and Freddie were allowed to buy it.

    From QE, to Fiscal Stimulus to idiotic laws that target the Middle classes discretionary income and raise taxes on the " rich ". Its one bad idea after another and its creating more disparity.
    Well here I agree up to a point.. QE was done wrong and the fiscal stimulus was not big enough. Fact is that all policies since Reagan have been focused on enriching the 1% and it has worked.

    What should have been done was to get QE money to the middle and lower classes, not into the hands of the 1%. What should have been done was to use a fiscal stimulus to improve the US infrastructure and not prop up "friendly" industries and 1%ers. And what should have been done long ago when the economy was booming.. like under Bush (yes it was a false boom) and under Clinton.. was to cut spending and debt. THIS was never done.

    Fact is, to improve any economy you need to increase demand for goods and the only way you can do that is to put more money in the hands of the majority of the people. The west has forgotten this very basic principle of economics thanks to American Reganonomics voodoo bull**** of the last 30 years. They have always focused on tax cuts at the top end of the income scale.. utterly worthless method and especially in the US where the income disparity is so massive. Freeing up cash for the middle class is key and always has been. Freeing up cash for Paris Hilton for her cocaine habit or Kim Kardasians butt implants.. worthless.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Their new President is such a Socialist Low life. Honestly, there's no other word for it.
    Know the expression, 'he who smelt it dealt it'?

    One of the first things he did was to go and lay flowers at a WW II Memorial. Apparently the Nazi's executed 200 Greeks and he felt ( for some reason ) he needed to call attention to this.
    You do know it was Holocaust Memorial Day, don't you? What a scummy, partisan comment!

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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol !!! Now its the creditors fault ??? Whats wrong with you people ?

    Nonsense. Utter and complete low information nonsense.

    Greece entered into the Union under false pretenses and then hid their debt away from EVERYONE until a new administration took over in 2008

    They misrepresented their position and took advantage of that misrepresentation until they couldn't any longer.

    Now they're welching. They're irresponsible and arguably criminal acts are threatening the Euro and German banks.


    Well, consider the fact that the EU continues to bail out the dying Socialist Greek economy with more and more loans. In that sense I agree that the EU is partly responsible for the losses. They should have kicked the Greeks out of the EU and let them crumble long ago. Syriza will change his tune quickly once he realizes that defaulting on the bail outs means no more bail outs in the future.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, consider the fact that the EU continues to bail out the dying Socialist Greek economy with more and more loans. In that sense I agree that the EU is partly responsible for the losses. They should have kicked the Greeks out of the EU and let them crumble long ago. Syriza will change his tune quickly once he realizes that defaulting on the bail outs means no more bail outs in the future.
    Syriza is a political party, not a person.

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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Interesting interview from the new (not then) Greek finance minister:

    http://bcove.me/q8tcp8bd

    The most important thing he said is at the end of the interview:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanis Varoufakis
    You can't have a monetary union that pretends it can survive a major financial crisis simply by lending more money to deficit countries on the condition they should simply reduce their income.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    I'd enjoy the implosion of the EU a lot more if the United States wasn't following down the same path.

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    Re: Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    A one sided take on the issue. Part of fiscal responsibility means not making loans to people who can't pay them back. If you do that, you have to shoulder the responsibility of the consequences, which means accepting losses. If you can't do that, don't make loans in the first place.
    Part of the reason Greece got into this mess is because they hid debt from lenders to forstall the day of reckoning.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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