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Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

RDS said:
US should be upgraded to No 1 spot in the corruption index.
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Its a mafia land. The irony is that this is the only way we will ever get a third party in the land that is supposedly for the peopel by the people, only the richest people can develop a third party. The only benefit will be if this paves the way for other thrid parties, like this is a sort of kicking in the door that allows maybe the green party to get into office later.

We vote for the leaders but not for their policies. I have never really voted on a policy personally. Occasionally we get asked to approve a state level grant or push through a refferendum that is barely acknowledged by the government, but i rarely see any other national refferendums where the people vote, like should we vote whether or not to leave war in asia? Why cant we vote on this stuff?
 
Threegoofs said:
Complains OP is singling out the Kochs and GOP and says its dishonest.

Singles out Soros and the Dems and says they are 10x worse.

Then says you can't say anything about either side.

Nice.
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Considering we have not improved anything since Obama took office, I would say my point is valid. Kochs also back both parties, they don't look at party affiliation, they look at the person's ideals and support those.

Soros's favorite politician is Hilary Clinton, whats that tell you?

Until you take the money out of politics, you can't complain. Which I'm not. We are passed the point of recovery, now we wait for the crash and rebuild. I could safely bet that most politicians are on some sort of take. Politicians for the most part do what gets them more money and/or power, so political affiliation doesn't matter when you have both teams pillaging whatever they can, then when leaving office, go work for lobbying firms. What can go wrong there?
 
Unrepresented said:
I do not have as much opportunity to influence an election as a billionaire. I don't have as much ability to own Disneyland as Walt Disney did. I don't have as much ability to be the first person to walk on the moon as Neil Armstrong. "Rights" and "opportunities" are vastly different words and in no way synonymous.
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Then your conviction is weak, and your imagination non existent...That puts you in the category of whiny bitch. ;) :shrug:
 
michijo said:
Its a mafia land. The irony is that this is the only way we will ever get a third party in the land that is supposedly for the peopel by the people, only the richest people can develop a third party. The only benefit will be if this paves the way for other thrid parties, like this is a sort of kicking in the door that allows maybe the green party to get into office later.

We vote for the leaders but not for their policies. I have never really voted on a policy personally. Occasionally we get asked to approve a state level grant or push through a refferendum that is barely acknowledged by the government, but i rarely see any other national refferendums where the people vote, like should we vote whether or not to leave war in asia? Why cant we vote on this stuff?
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People are too outspoken there and you are swayed to vote for the outspoken Sarah Palin quality even though she spews out loads of garbage.
 
RDS said:
People are too outspoken there and you are swayed to vote for the outspoken Sarah Palin quality even though she spews out loads of garbage.
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"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

- Pastor Niemöller
 
JasperL said:
Of course I own the air that I breath as a normal part of enjoying my property rights. And so, if you poison that air, I can sue you for damages and I will win.



Well, you're wrong, but I don't see any point in continuing the debate. All you guys can or will do is just double down on baseless, unreasoned assertions unsupportable by any theory of property rights ever enunciated.
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You do not own the air. Nice try. I agree there is no point in further discussion.
 
Unrepresented said:
The purpose of government is to promote equal opportunity. Giving one citizen many times the access to influence and speech isn't equal opportunity for competition of ideas.
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Govt doesnt give people money to spend on speaking. A poor person has the same right to spend as much money as they want on promoting ideas as a rich person. That IS equal opportunity.
 
JRSaindo said:
Considering we have not improved anything since Obama took office, I would say my point is valid. Kochs also back both parties, they don't look at party affiliation, they look at the person's ideals and support those.

Soros's favorite politician is Hilary Clinton, whats that tell you?

Until you take the money out of politics, you can't complain. Which I'm not. We are passed the point of recovery, now we wait for the crash and rebuild. I could safely bet that most politicians are on some sort of take. Politicians for the most part do what gets them more money and/or power, so political affiliation doesn't matter when you have both teams pillaging whatever they can, then when leaving office, go work for lobbying firms. What can go wrong there?
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Until we take the legal plunder out of politics we are pissing into the wind.
 
RDS said:
People are too outspoken there and you are swayed to vote for the outspoken Sarah Palin quality even though she spews out loads of garbage.
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Stop buying the rhetoric and pay attention to the resume, resumes don't lie, people do
 
Misterveritis said:
You do not own the air. Nice try. I agree there is no point in further discussion.
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I agree - baseless assertions backed by nothing isn't a discussion.

I do find it odd that conservatives' view of property rights is that someone can move in next door to you, and by burning hazardous waste poison your family, kill your cattle, potentially make your house and land uninhabitable by polluting the air you breath, and conclude that you have to look for a state law outlawing that act for relief. And if that law banning that specific act does not exist, the landowner can do nothing.

It's an incredible claim - the neighbor can make your land uninhabitable without violating your property rights so long as they "only" poison the air you breath.

No wonder the polluters love the GOP so much. Their view of property rights grants business a license to pollute at will.
 
jonny5 said:
Govt doesnt give people money to spend on speaking. A poor person has the same right to spend as much money as they want on promoting ideas as a rich person. That IS equal opportunity.
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You equate "promoting ideas" with individuals who buy politicians to vote their special interests? Really?

And the Koch brother do not fund candidates based on individuality, they back Tea Baggers and the non-profit (?) organizations who promote them. That's a fact, Jack.


On 5th Anniversary of Citizens United, GOP Taps Koch Brothers-Backed Senator to Give SOTU Response
"...On Tuesday night, newly elected Republican Sen. Joni Ernst of Iowa, who was strongly backed by the Koch brothers, gave the GOP response to President Obama. Meanwhile this weekend, four leading Republican presidential prospects — Sen. Ted Cruz, Sen. Marco Rubio, Sen. Rand Paul and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker — are set to appear at an exclusive gathering of rich conservatives organized by the Koch brothers. """

"""RALPH NADER: Well, first of all, there should be a state legislature that asks the Koch brothers to come and testify and answer questions. Congress should have a congressional hearing on this, but the Republicans are in control. But nobody ever does anything more than expose the Koch brothers. Well, put them out in the public light and cross-examine them.

My favorite approach is that every major corporation does business with the federal government, and the federal government should simply say that if you want contracts with Uncle Sam, you cannot give money to political campaigns. There are some towns in California who basically say anybody who does business with city hall cannot make contributions. So that’s one way to limit the effect of Citizens United and other judicial decisions.

But for the overall citizen strategy against Citizens United, go to citizen.org — that’s Public Citizen’s website — which has a diverse approach to mobilize people to amend the Constitution, but, in the meantime, to do other things that will limit the effect of putting our politicians on an auction block for the highest bidder."""
 
j-mac said:
Then your conviction is weak, and your imagination non existent...That puts you in the category of whiny bitch. ;) :shrug:
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I'd argue that your grasp on reality is far weaker than my conviction if you think that everyone can become an election influence multi-billionaire.
 
jonny5 said:
Govt doesnt give people money to spend on speaking. A poor person has the same right to spend as much money as they want on promoting ideas as a rich person. That IS equal opportunity.
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If I spend $10 dollars of my disposable income, explain how that's equal opportunity to the Kochs spending a billion.
 
PureVanilla said:
You equate "promoting ideas" with individuals who buy politicians to vote their special interests? Really?

And the Koch brother do not fund candidates based on individuality, they back Tea Baggers and the non-profit (?) organizations who promote them. That's a fact, Jack.

"""
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Well since youre just going to call people names.
 
jonny5 said:
You have the same right to spend a billion as they do.
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Exactly sounds like since this is such a big issue to Unrepresented that it would be a big incentive to become one of those evil rich people so he can earn those billions like Gates, Zuckerberg, the Koch Brothers and spend that money to support candidates of his choice.
 
RDS said:
US should be upgraded to No 1 spot in the corruption index.
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We're not even anywhere close to most of the third world countries.

In most cases, corruption is why they're third world countries.
 
jonny5 said:
You have the same right to spend a billion as they do.
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I have no access to a billion dollars. I don't have that right.
Conservative said:
Exactly sounds like since this is such a big issue to Unrepresented that it would be a big incentive to become one of those evil rich people so he can earn those billions like Gates, Zuckerberg, the Koch Brothers and spend that money to support candidates of his choice.
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I shouldn't have to become a billionaire to have an equal voice in society.
 
Unrepresented said:
I have no access to a billion dollars. I don't have that right.

I shouldn't have to become a billionaire to have an equal voice in society.
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You are the only one that believes you have to have a billion to have any influence.
 
Conservative said:
You are the only one that believes you have to have a billion to have any influence.
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I didn't say that, but I certainly believe a billion dollars will be more influential than any pocket change I can apply to the discussion.
 
Unrepresented said:
I didn't say that, but I certainly believe a billion dollars will be more influential than any pocket change I can apply to the discussion.
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If you had a billion dollars why would you care who was in office? Why do you care what someone else makes or spends? How does that affect you and your family?
 
Conservative said:
If you had a billion dollars why would you care who was in office? Why do you care what someone else makes or spends? How does that affect you and your family?
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I have considerably less than a billion dollars and don't care about getting more. Apparently my sense of moderation isn't universal. Apparently controlling billions isn't enough for some.
 
JasperL said:
I agree - baseless assertions backed by nothing isn't a discussion.

I do find it odd that conservatives' view of property rights is that someone can move in next door to you, and by burning hazardous waste poison your family, kill your cattle, potentially make your house and land uninhabitable by polluting the air you breath, and conclude that you have to look for a state law outlawing that act for relief. And if that law banning that specific act does not exist, the landowner can do nothing.

It's an incredible claim - the neighbor can make your land uninhabitable without violating your property rights so long as they "only" poison the air you breath.

No wonder the polluters love the GOP so much. Their view of property rights grants business a license to pollute at will.
Click to expand...

It is clear to me that you do not understand the difference between a right and a law. I do not believe you ever will.
 
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