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Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

Excuse me? What part of the Koch's $400M to win back the House did you miss? Go to the link and look at the network.

And poor Jonathan Gruber seems to have more crow feathers to pick out his mouth than he can manage.

Didn't sway the millions who voted for Obama, did it so how did that affect you? Seems you want to deny someone else's freedom to spend their money on what they wanted to spend it on. You ought to be happy, 400 million was wasted but someone benefited from that spending, those in the advertising business as well as consultants or aren't those acceptable jobs for you?
 
That's easy. Ask that same question of people who were marketed heavily in the early '00s to buy a home only for it to go underwater or be foreclosed in 2008. Countrywide would give a mortgage to anyone with a pulse. Does the term NINJA loan conjure up any memories for you? Show me where the Wall Street bankers have been hurt in that deal. Hank Paulson (Secty of the Treasury under Bush, in case you forgot that, too) gave them $750,000,000,000 to ease their pain.

So tell me, when those homes were foreclosed where were the Democrats who controlled Congress? Did Democrats benefit from people buying homes they couldn't afford? Did you forget Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who chaired the oversight committees or when they weren't in charge telling the public there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie?

So you believe 750 billion was spent on TARP. Please post proof of that, not what was authorized but rather how much was spent and did Obama spend any of it? Was TARP a loan or an expense? Don't you think you should find out? If it was a loan wouldn't repayment be expected? Did that happen?

Please show me where Obama who has been in the WH since January 2009 did anything other than recycle money?
 
Seems like the only ones truly swayed by money and advertising are liberals. Liberal groups like Soros couldn't spend enough to get me to vote for a Democrat today, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary so apparently that money wouldn't be well spent on my. Take that money to the liberal base and Gruber nailed it

The people who are most swayed by political advertising are the uninformed, gullible centrists. Neither liberals or conservatives change their positions very much. The uninformed, gullible centrists are the ones who routinely change which party they vote for and their positions on issues. and they are most vulnerable to believing misleading information and emotional appeals.
 
Winner take all? So tell me how a rich person prevented you from becoming rich? Apparently you think the pie is frozen in size, is that correct? You are limited by your own ability and effort from getting into the same class as those evil rich people you want to punish. Only you are stopping yourself
I have no pathology that drives me to exploit people sufficiently to become "rich."

I would prefer not to be exploited by people with such pathologies.
 
Didn't sway the millions who voted for Obama, did it so how did that affect you? Seems you want to deny someone else's freedom to spend their money on what they wanted to spend it on. You ought to be happy, 400 million was wasted but someone benefited from that spending, those in the advertising business as well as consultants or aren't those acceptable jobs for you?

I am in the advertising business actually. And I've even created a few political campaign pieces.
Seems you're content to have the wealthiest Americans buy and own our government. And you're conservative?
 
So tell me, when those homes were foreclosed where were the Democrats who controlled Congress? Did Democrats benefit from people buying homes they couldn't afford? Did you forget Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who chaired the oversight committees or when they weren't in charge telling the public there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie?

So you believe 750 billion was spent on TARP. Please post proof of that, not what was authorized but rather how much was spent and did Obama spend any of it? Was TARP a loan or an expense? Don't you think you should find out? If it was a loan wouldn't repayment be expected? Did that happen?

Please show me where Obama who has been in the WH since January 2009 did anything other than recycle money?

I believe that far more than $750B has gone to the banks since 2008, actually.

$7.77 Trillion

Excerpt:
"".....The amount of money the central bank parceled out was surprising even to Gary H. Stern, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis from 1985 to 2009, who says he “wasn’t aware of the magnitude.” It dwarfed the Treasury Department’s better-known $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. Add up guarantees and lending limits, and the Fed had committed $7.77 trillion as of March 2009 to rescuing the financial system, more than half the value of everything produced in the U.S. that year.
“TARP at least had some strings attached,” says Brad Miller, a North Carolina Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee, referring to the program’s executive-pay ceiling. “With the Fed programs, there was nothing.”
Bankers didn’t disclose the extent of their borrowing. On Nov. 26, 2008, then-Bank of America Corp. Chief Executive Officer Kenneth D. Lewis wrote to shareholders that he headed “one of the strongest and most stable major banks in the world.” He didn’t say that his Charlotte, North Carolina-based firm owed the central bank $86 billion that day.

Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion Undisclosed to Congress - Bloomberg Business
 
I have no pathology that drives me to exploit people sufficiently to become "rich."

I would prefer not to be exploited by people with such pathologies.

Politicians and CEOs are notorious for being sociopaths. Not to be confused with psychopaths who are violent. But they tend to be extreme narcissists at the least.
 
I have no pathology that drives me to exploit people sufficiently to become "rich."

I would prefer not to be exploited by people with such pathologies.

You think Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs exploited people or did they make billions while making others millionaires? Why is it that exploitation is always a liberal talking point. What you are telling me is you don't want to work hard, take risk, develop skills that make you marketable to compete in a private sector economy so like most Californians you don't have a problem taking from those who do and give that to you?
 
I am in the advertising business actually. And I've even created a few political campaign pieces.
Seems you're content to have the wealthiest Americans buy and own our government. And you're conservative?

Actually the wealthiest only buy those politicians you allow them to buy and do so with your vote. You think Pelosi, Reid, Feinstein, Boxer, and other liberal politicians haven't been bought? Is it only Republican politicians that you have a problem with? You vote, you campaign, you change people's minds. You aren't going to do it here on a message board
 
I believe that far more than $750B has gone to the banks since 2008, actually.

$7.77 Trillion

Excerpt:
"".....The amount of money the central bank parceled out was surprising even to Gary H. Stern, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis from 1985 to 2009, who says he “wasn’t aware of the magnitude.” It dwarfed the Treasury Department’s better-known $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. Add up guarantees and lending limits, and the Fed had committed $7.77 trillion as of March 2009 to rescuing the financial system, more than half the value of everything produced in the U.S. that year.
“TARP at least had some strings attached,” says Brad Miller, a North Carolina Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee, referring to the program’s executive-pay ceiling. “With the Fed programs, there was nothing.”
Bankers didn’t disclose the extent of their borrowing. On Nov. 26, 2008, then-Bank of America Corp. Chief Executive Officer Kenneth D. Lewis wrote to shareholders that he headed “one of the strongest and most stable major banks in the world.” He didn’t say that his Charlotte, North Carolina-based firm owed the central bank $86 billion that day.

Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion Undisclosed to Congress - Bloomberg Business

Right, TARP was a LOAN and most of it has been repaid. the total was about 500 billion not 750 billion, and the 7.7 trillion isn't cash, it is assets most of which were purchased by Freddie and Fannie on demands from the Federal Govt. It is a bubble that is going to burst
 
Actually the wealthiest only buy those politicians you allow them to buy and do so with your vote. You think Pelosi, Reid, Feinstein, Boxer, and other liberal politicians haven't been bought? Is it only Republican politicians that you have a problem with? You vote, you campaign, you change people's minds. You aren't going to do it here on a message board

You can't be serious. Our vote means nothing now since the passage of Citizens United. It's all about money.
Question: There are approximately 45,000,000 people in America living in poverty. Who are their lobbyists? Do they have digs on K Street along with the insurance and bank lobbyists on the right?
 
Right, TARP was a LOAN and most of it has been repaid. the total was about 500 billion not 750 billion, and the 7.7 trillion isn't cash, it is assets most of which were purchased by Freddie and Fannie on demands from the Federal Govt. It is a bubble that is going to burst

Who owns Freddie and Fannie?

"The federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac refers to the placing into conservatorship of government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by the U.S. Treasury in September 2008. It was one of the financial events among many in the ongoing subprime mortgage crisis."""

Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
You can't be serious. Our vote means nothing now since the passage of Citizens United. It's all about money.
Question: There are approximately 45,000,000 people in America living in poverty. Who are their lobbyists? Do they have digs on K Street along with the insurance and bank lobbyists on the right?

So what has your politician, local representative done about it? 45 million Americans live in poverty? there are 312 plus million Americans so what percentage is that and what is the poverty amount in this country vs those other countries you seem to believe are better off? Tell me which lobbyists actually voted on bills to keep people in poverty? How much of the Federal Budget is spent on social issues including poverty? how much was spent on the War on Poverty and what did we get for it? Don't you think you should find out before spouting this kind of rhetoric?

I am sure you care but the way to solve the problem is to now whine about it, get active, get involved locally and stop looking to the Federal Govt. to solve social problems that by your posts show you don't even understand.
 
Who owns Freddie and Fannie?

"The federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac refers to the placing into conservatorship of government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by the U.S. Treasury in September 2008. It was one of the financial events among many in the ongoing subprime mortgage crisis."""

Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yep, and that is where the trillions in almost worthless assets reside. Who controlled the Congress that allowed that to happen? You think Bush was king? What did Obama do in 2009 regarding that problem? You don't seem to get it, the Federal Govt. has hidden the problem from the American people to continue to buy votes. Why don't you ask your liberal friends where the 4.0 TRILLION dollar budget Obama wants is going to go? You think throwing money at the problem changes human behavior?
 
You think Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs exploited people or did they make billions while making others millionaires? Why is it that exploitation is always a liberal talking point. What you are telling me is you don't want to work hard, take risk, develop skills that make you marketable to compete in a private sector economy so like most Californians you don't have a problem taking from those who do and give that to you?

Wealth is like obesity; you get fat from eating too much, you get rich from exploiting too much. They're both compulsive disorders.

You can work hard, take risks, and develop skills without exploiting people. Many of us do it, a few have an untreated addiction that we as a society should help free them from.
 
Wealth is like obesity; you get fat from eating too much, you get rich from exploiting too much. They're both compulsive disorders.

You can work hard, take risks, and develop skills without exploiting people. Many of us do it, a few have an untreated addiction that we as a society should help free them from.

Yes, that is true, so tell me how any rich person prevented you from becoming rich? This so called addiction on your part is someone spending 900 million of their own money to buy influence or to buy votes, buy votes from whom? How much money would it take to buy your vote? Do you vote on legislation in Congress? Do the Koch Brothers? Stop treating what you perceive is a problem of people spending their own money and focus on the real problem politicians having their votes bought. Support term limits and clean house.
 
Yes, that is true, so tell me how any rich person prevented you from becoming rich? This so called addiction on your part is someone spending 900 million of their own money to buy influence or to buy votes, buy votes from whom? How much money would it take to buy your vote? Do you vote on legislation in Congress? Do the Koch Brothers? Stop treating what you perceive is a problem of people spending their own money and focus on the real problem politicians having their votes bought. Support term limits and clean house.
Again, I don't wish to be "rich," any more than I wish to be morbidly obese. Both are compulsive disorders.

My votes are sold to people who sell convincing narratives. The more money you have the more you can sell a narrative.
 
Again, I don't wish to be "rich," any more than I wish to be morbidly obese. Both are compulsive disorders.

My votes are sold to people who sell convincing narratives. The more money you have the more you can sell a narrative.

Then you buy the Kochs narrative since they have the most money.

That's interesting. You don't sound like a koch-head.
 
Again, I don't wish to be "rich," any more than I wish to be morbidly obese. Both are compulsive disorders.

My votes are sold to people who sell convincing narratives. The more money you have the more you can sell a narrative.

That is your opinion and obviously you are sure upset over what someone else does with their money. Waiting for how that affects you?
 
Romney is too liberal for the Kochs. He would never see any of those funds, maybe token taxi money.
The Kochs are going to invest that money in Tea Party/far right evangelical candidates, as they did in the mid-terms. And if successful, they will be running America with the sock puppet of their choice in the White House.

If they do that, then I was wrong about how they're astute capitalists. They're throwing their money down the gutter where storm water will wash it out to sea, or at least they may as well do that. The far right Tea Party candidates will not win the general election. If they succeed in getting one nominated, then we're in for four years of Hillary Clinton.
 
It's no coincidence that Romney made his announcement just days after the Koch brothers revealed they are buying the White House in 2016. He doesn't have that kind of money. Several homes and an elevator for his car in La Jolla, yes. That kind of money, no.

The rot on both side is deep. Senate races costing 50 - 70 million- Pres races now could surpass a billion.
They all get paid back in one way or another- and neither Party competently desalinates labor- or big bussiness.
Meanwhile the poor and middle class, what is left pay.
The Republicans and some Dems are preparing to weaken the Dodd Frank regs passed after Wall Street corruption lead to this recession and world wide impact.
How many are in Jail.
Dodd
 
Then you buy the Kochs narrative since they have the most money.

That's interesting. You don't sound like a koch-head.
It's only been a handful of years since Citizens United, give me another week before it overruns the narratives I've already been indoctrinated with.
That is your opinion and obviously you are sure upset over what someone else does with their money. Waiting for how that affects you?
No one spends a billion dollars on an election without expectation of some recompense. Myself and people like me well pay that recompense.
 
It's only been a handful of years since Citizens United, give me another week before it overruns the narratives I've already been indoctrinated with.

No one spends a billion dollars on an election without expectation of some recompense. Myself and people like me well pay that recompense.

You mean like Senators paying millions for a 174,000 a year salary? Still waiting for how some rich person spending their own money hurt you and preventing you from becoming rich? Again you are levying charges against the wrong source, you should be more angry at the politician who votes on the legislation and had their vote bought.
 
It's pertinent. If the money "BUYS" you a candidate, then the Kochs, outspending everyone, then every candidate backed by the Koch brothers should win and they don't. The fact that republicans make more gains in some years than others is only something you can attribute to "Koch brothers influence" if you ignore everything else that affects elections.

You're intentionally missing the point. You obviously can't say the large donors don't have orders of magnitude more influence on who gets nominated, who wins elections and then the details of legislation flowing (or not flowing) out of state and federal legislatures. As you said, asserting that someone spending $500 million over a couple of cycles had no effect on those things would be "stupid." So you're correctly pointing out that some big donors don't always get what they want as if that contradicts any point I've made - it doesn't.

That's not a strawman. That just blows a gaping hole in your theory that campaign donations "buy" either politicians or votes. One man one vote is still the law of the land.

Yeah, OK, I understand grade school civics, and everyone else in reality knows that's a small part of the story. If that's all you understand about how a democracy actually functions, you're ignorant of what is important about how people get elected and how legislation gets passed.

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to respond to this any more. There's lots of debate and lots of emotions and lots of "gut feelings" but zero evidence that campaign contributions buy votes or political candidates. Are you going to vote for the people that the Koch brothers are supporting? I doubt it. Why can't the Koch brothers buy your vote?

And there is also no evidence that the $billions spent each cycle is wasted, has no effect on votes or who wins elections or what those that win do in office, or that legislators get to their jobs and vote their consciences, unmoved by the influence of money. No one older than grade school believes that, and I think you're a grown adult. So I'm not sure what game you're trying to play except to support unlimited spending in elections without wanting to admit what that brings with it.
 
The rot on both side is deep. Senate races costing 50 - 70 million- Pres races now could surpass a billion.
They all get paid back in one way or another- and neither Party competently desalinates labor- or big bussiness.
Meanwhile the poor and middle class, what is left pay.
The Republicans and some Dems are preparing to weaken the Dodd Frank regs passed after Wall Street corruption lead to this recession and world wide impact.
How many are in Jail.
Dodd

I agree. But the Kochs are far right wing Republicans who throw their support to the Tea Party candidates. That's what this thread is about. Their money and influence. And they want to drag God into the mix along with taking away women's rights and putting gays back in the closet. But they will make sure illegal immigrants stay here and work because they are all for paying millions of people $3 an hour under the table.
 
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