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Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

Unrepresented said:
I see such wealth disparity as evidence they've already been exploiting the population.
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Ah. And when Apple sells you an iPod, how, exactly, is Steve Jobs exploiting you?
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Something other than throwing it away?
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I don't play with any regularity, but large jackpots, eh, I'll throw a buck at them....Who knows? People often spend on entertainment like raffles, bingo, even casino's....Its all in fun....If it is something more then that is a problem, but for me? I throw a buck at it....Who cares?
 
CanadaJohn said:
If it's not a $billion taxpayer dollars being wasted, I don't care at all, just as I don't care what anyone spends their own money on. I think $million weddings are obscene, but it's not my money so I don't really care.

As for elections, if ads and political spending are what shapes your vote, that's too bad - mine isn't shaped by anything other than what the candidate says regarding issues I care about and how they present themselves throughout the process.
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It's not about what the spending does to our individual votes (Koch money to a candidate nearly guarantees I vote for someone else), it's the prospect that two individuals can so heavily influence the outcomes of many elections. I can't imagine anyone who believes in democracy not having concerns about that level of spending and influence.

And that kind of money, as vast as it is, understates the influence it has. If you're an elected official and are considering a vote against the interests of the Koch brothers, what you know is you will be buried under a pile of shiate at your next primary, and next general if necessary, OR you can vote with them and life is normal. So they'll have vast influence even in elections in which they don't spend a dime.
 
tres borrachos said:
Nope. There's no evidence that they hold any more power than anyone else in this country when it comes to influencing politicians.
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Goodness, that's so obviously wrong in 100 different ways. They can issue a credible threat against every office holder - vote with us, or we WILL dump $10s of thousands, millions, whatever it takes into the race against you. There are few with that kind of power who have demonstrated their willingness to exercise it.
 
JasperL said:
Goodness, that's so obviously wrong in 100 different ways. They can issue a credible threat against every office holder - vote with us, or we WILL dump $10s of thousands, millions, whatever it takes into the race against you. There are few with that kind of power who have demonstrated their willingness to exercise it.
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Did that work against Walker in Wisconsin, when Unions stepped in and swamped the elections there with massive money? I'd say no.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Why does money from the left get a pass but Koch money gets scrutiny?
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Straw man alert!!

Big 'money' from the left is just as dangerous as big money from right wingers. I don't want to live in a world where the politics is a game of dueling $billionaires, do you? And I think if you polled liberals, the large majority would support sharply limited contributions from all sides, perhaps publicly financed elections, support for a repeal of Citizens United, etc. I've read few to none on the left who are comfortable with ANYONE dumping $900 million into the political process because we know that any alignment of our interests with those of the billionaires is purely coincidental.
 
j-mac said:
Did that work against Walker in Wisconsin, when Unions stepped in and swamped the elections there with massive money? I'd say no.
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And how much money did the Koch network pour into that election? Scott Walker wasn't outspent.

Furthermore, at least a union contribution represents thousands or tens of thousands of individuals. Koch money is two guys and a handful of their wealthy cronies.

Finally, it's not whether the Koch network money will back the winning candidate in every election. That's not the point. What is does is guarantee that politicians considering a vote decide if it's worth it, if their career can withstand, a full on frontal assault of Koch money in the next election.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
We need to sit you down and show you how terrible the odds are.:mrgreen:
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I already figured it out.:2razz: I know that I have a better chance of hitting the progressive jackpot in a slot machine. But when I pass those billboards that scream $490 MILLION, what's a girl to do?:mrgreen:
 
Deuce said:
You don't think a person who puts $900 million into political campaigns has more influence than you do!?
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I don't have any influence at all. All I can do is vote for the candidate whose ideas most closely align with mine. That's what I always do. That's what the Koch brothers do, and what the unions do, and what the youth do, and what women do, and what the NRA does, and what unions do, and what blacks do, and so on.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Good point. But we can't go around telling people they have to limit their income.
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We can produce regulations, taxes, and provide social incentives to decrease the desire to gain such offensive levels of wealth at the expense of others.
 
JANFU said:
And they do this due to their love for their country. Thoughts are?

Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/u...lumn-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

The political network overseen by the conservative billionaires Charles G. and David H. Koch plans to spend close to $900 million on the 2016 campaign, an unparalelled effort by outside groups to shape a presidential election that is already on track to be the most expensive in history.

The goal, revealed Monday at the Kochs’ annual winter donor retreat near Palm Springs, Calif., would effectively allow their political organization to operate at the same financial scale as the Democratic and Republican parties. In the last presidential election, the Republican National Committee and the party’s two congressional campaign committees spent a total of $657 million.
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Cool. Talk about stimulus. Think of all those businesses around the country that will benefit. The radio stations, the printers, office personnel. Sounds like a great opportunity for people to benefit.

When NY Times gets honest enough to also print the spending plans of the Democracy Alliance, Tides Foundation, Ford Foundation, NEA, SEIU, AFL-CIO, Annenberg Trust, Knight Foundation, Open Society Institute, the Bauman Foundation, the Angelica Foundation, and a mountain of other liberal/progressive machine members and supporters, we can get a better picture of all the political stimulus planned for the upcoming elections.
 
joko104 said:
Why a private island? To be totally reclusive?
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No, to own an island where I can fly my friends and my family and spend time in the sun whenever we want, and to watch my kids play in the sea without a lifeguard corralling them into a small space, and to enjoy cocktails on the beach whenever I want. Why do you assume I'm morose and reclusive?
 
JasperL said:
Goodness, that's so obviously wrong in 100 different ways. They can issue a credible threat against every office holder - vote with us, or we WILL dump $10s of thousands, millions, whatever it takes into the race against you. There are few with that kind of power who have demonstrated their willingness to exercise it.
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Super.

So post some specific examples of them doing this.
 
cpwill said:
Ah. And when Apple sells you an iPod, how, exactly, is Steve Jobs exploiting you?
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Apple is:

a) exploiting a monopoly they have on a product.

b) exploiting their development of technology

c) exploiting their access to manufacturing

d) exploiting the Chinese labor that makes them

e) exploiting their market access

In other words, I can't easily build a device that contains music. Apple exploits this. Very profitably, apparently.
 
Unrepresented said:
We can produce regulations, taxes, and provide social incentives to decrease the desire to gain such offensive levels of wealth at the expense of others.
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I understand that is where your ideology takes you. However, the problem is, you're in the wrong country to achieve that goal. The United States did not achieve it's greatness because it put regulations and taxes in place to decrease the desire to gain levels of wealth that other people may take exception to. It, in fact, achieved what is has because it provides the opportunity for people to naturally seek the best they can become.
 
ocean515 said:
I understand that is where your ideology takes you. However, the problem is, you're in the wrong country to achieve that goal. The United States did not achieve it's greatness because it put regulations and taxes in place to decrease the desire to gain levels of wealth that other people may take exception to. It, in fact, achieved what is has because it provides the opportunity for people to naturally seek the best they can become.
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MARGINAL-TAX-RATES.jpg
 
JasperL said:
And how much money did the Koch network pour into that election? Scott Walker wasn't outspent.

Furthermore, at least a union contribution represents thousands or tens of thousands of individuals. Koch money is two guys and a handful of their wealthy cronies.

Finally, it's not whether the Koch network money will back the winning candidate in every election. That's not the point. What is does is guarantee that politicians considering a vote decide if it's worth it, if their career can withstand, a full on frontal assault of Koch money in the next election.
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I see, so you have no problem with Union money going in, just that the Koch brothers make a statement of their supposed plans, and you get all frothed up....Man you libs are easy.
 
ocean515 said:
Again. You're in the wrong country. I think you could become more fulfilled in a country more in keeping with your vision.
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excellent point
our country has gone very wrong in many ways
hope he sticks around to improve it to become a greater, better nation that cares for more than privilege
 
tres borrachos said:
Super.

So post some specific examples of them doing this.
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First of all, the Koch brothers aren't morons, so they KNOW their money buys an immense amount of influence. It defies logic to pretend those kinds of sums don't. But here's one example, since you asked:

Kansas Governor Race: Brownback Faces GOP Ire - Business Insider

The campaigns were unlike anything Kansas state races had ever seen. Groups like the Kansas Chamber of Commerce and Americans for Prosperity, backed by the Wichita-native Koch brothers (who have become a chief Democratic villain in this year's elections), helped rocket campaign spending to record levels.

Dick Kelsey, a former state senator who says he voted with Brownback more than 90% of the time while in the Senate, said he typically spent about $35,000 to $40,000 on his re-election campaigns.

During the 2012 race, he said, the spending against him reached more than $200,000.
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j-mac said:
I see, so you have no problem with Union money going in, just that the Koch brothers make a statement of their supposed plans, and you get all frothed up....Man you libs are easy.
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What I pointed out is a union represents thousands or tens of thousands of individuals. I have no more, or less, problem with union money than I do with NRA money or AARP money.
 
justabubba said:
excellent point
our country has gone very wrong in many ways
hope he sticks around to improve it to become a greater, better nation that cares for more than privilege
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I agree it has gone very wrong in many ways. When we start devolving to placate the voices of mediocrity, we lose sight of the greatness in people who embrace the opportunities that are responsible for this Nations success.

I share you desire that he sticks around, so he can learn what it takes to achieve success, rather than champion what to take away, so some people can feel better.
 
tres borrachos said:
What does that article do to prove that the Koch brothers influenced politicians to do something against their will?
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You're right, knowing that the last republicans who crossed AFP and only voted 90% with Brownback saw the money against them balloon to $200,000 in the next election doesn't have any influence at all on votes....

Give me a break. You have to be willingly naive to believe that kind of money doesn't influence votes and get results. The Koch brothers and their allies know better. Unless you think they're stupid. Is that what you think?
 
JasperL said:
Straw man alert!!

Big 'money' from the left is just as dangerous as big money from right wingers. I don't want to live in a world where the politics is a game of dueling $billionaires, do you? And I think if you polled liberals, the large majority would support sharply limited contributions from all sides, perhaps publicly financed elections, support for a repeal of Citizens United, etc. I've read few to none on the left who are comfortable with ANYONE dumping $900 million into the political process because we know that any alignment of our interests with those of the billionaires is purely coincidental.
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I couldn't agree more. It's also alarming how they get involved even in small town elections. Like this example: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/04/u...tions-in-small-races.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Tim Phillips, the national president of Americans for Prosperity, said the organization could have a real effect on local races, where it does not have to deal with all the Washington special interests.

The main reason “we fight local issue battles is because they result in good policy outcomes, generally promoting economic freedom via less taxes, less government spending,” he said.

But here, in this town of fewer than 20,000 residents, the group has not been so welcome, and the nonpartisan campaign has become an informal referendum on the involvement of outsiders.

Even residents who agree with Americans for Prosperity’s core argument — that the city’s debt is out of control — question the group’s motives for wading into the race. That has forced the candidates who share the group’s beliefs to keep the organization at a distance.

Chris Turner, a first-time candidate for the City Council who has spoken out against the debt, said that although he disagreed with Americans for Prosperity on most issues, he could not seem to catch a break because his campaign platform aligns with the organization.

“Every time I go to a debate or anything, I’ve tried talking about the budget, and then they just go, ‘Koch brothers, Koch brothers, Koch brothers,’ ” he said of his critics, adding that he wished Americans for Prosperity “would just go away.”
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