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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    "Your view, while interesting, is simply untrue. Nice try though."
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Untrue = not in agreement with your world view.
    In addition to being at odds with me you are at odds with history. It matters only a little to me.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Can you provide a few examples of far right wing Republicans? What makes them far right to you? Is it because they are highly successful and provide good, non-government jobs to tens of thousands of people?
    This thread is about two of them, in case you didn't notice.

    "...good, non-government jobs to tens of thousands of people". Well, the "good" part not so much, if you don't mind working for wages that are stuck in a time warp. And why? Because these highly successful people all want to make the Forbes 400 list before they die. So the screw the worker who makes it possible for them. Got it, yet?



    Even adjusting for inflation, most Americans' wages haven't increased in over 10 years?
    Even adjusting for inflation, most Americans' wages haven't increased in over 10 years? | PolitiFact Wisconsin

    Year and Weekly wages, 4th quarter of each year
    1999
    $335

    2000
    334

    2001
    340

    2002
    336

    2003
    337
    2004
    337

    2005
    332

    2006
    337

    2007
    332

    2008
    340

    2009
    344

    2010
    341

    2011
    335

    2012
    334

    2013
    334

    So, the inflation-adjusted median wage during the final quarter of 2013 was $334 -- $1 lower than during the final quarter of 1999, more than a decade earlier."""
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
    ― Upton Sinclair

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by PureVanilla View Post
    This thread is about two of them, in case you didn't notice.

    "...good, non-government jobs to tens of thousands of people". Well, the "good" part not so much, if you don't mind working for wages that are stuck in a time warp. And why? Because these highly successful people all want to make the Forbes 400 list before they die. So the screw the worker who makes it possible for them. Got it, yet?

    Even adjusting for inflation, most Americans' wages haven't increased in over 10 years?
    Even adjusting for inflation, most Americans' wages haven't increased in over 10 years? | PolitiFact Wisconsin

    Year and Weekly wages, 4th quarter of each year

    ...non-value-added drek deleted to save space.

    So, the inflation-adjusted median wage during the final quarter of 2013 was $334 -- $1 lower than during the final quarter of 1999, more than a decade earlier."""
    Yes, I should have made it clear that the "them" I was referring to were the two brothers in question. They employ tens of thousands of people. They are not responsible for the mess the federal government has made of our economy. So instead of your nonsense generalizations analyze what they have done. If you can.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You do have more speech if you're rich. The article describes how a few people will be spending a billion dollars next year speaking. I, nor most people, don't have that much speech.
    Not according to the law. Everyone has the same freedom to spend as much or as little money as they wish to promote their political opinions. Equal under the law means they cant make a law that says you get more speech if you can afford it. There are no such laws.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, we're just engaged in an exercise of splitting hairs - what the definition of 'is' is debate. The bottom line is our property rights extend to the air we breathe, and for lots of practical reasons, that right is not absolute. Same as the rest of our rights - exceptions and infringements are allowed by law for all kinds of reasons.


    No they do not and you are clearly speaking about that which you know not.

    Again.
    No such "right" exists.

    Again.
    You are speaking to law. Not a "right".

    Again.
    No such "right" to unpolluted air exists, nor could it as all air is naturally polluted to some extent.





    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If nonsense is repeated often enough......

    .....it's still nonsense.
    Which is why he is continually corrected.

    Again.
    No such "right" exists.

    Again.
    You are (He is) speaking to law. Not a "right".

    Again.
    No such "right" to unpolluted air exists, nor could it as all air is naturally polluted to some extent.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    No they do not and you are clearly speaking about that which you know not.
    It's nice for you to keep repeating the same thing over and over and pretending that you're making anything resembling a persuasive point, but you're not.

    If our property rights don't extend to the air we breathe, then why aren't you allowed to set up shop in the lot next to me and burn hazardous materials? On what basis can I sue you? IMO the landowner has property rights extending to the air he breathes and if you infringe on that right, he can sue for damages or to prevent you from infringing on his property rights to enjoy the use of his property without being poisoned by YOUR acts.

    Alternatively, my neighbor can do as he wishes on his property, and there is nothing but a law that can prevent him from inflicting harm on me by poisoning the air I breath, killing my dogs, or cattle. If I want the burning to stop, I have to pay HIM.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's nice for you to keep repeating the same thing over and over and pretending that you're making anything resembling a persuasive point, but you're not.
    Your failure to understand you are wrong and why you are wrong is your problem. Not mine.
    You are clearly speaking about that which you know not.

    Again.
    No such "right" exists.

    Again.
    You are speaking to law. Not a "right".

    Again.
    No such "right" to unpolluted air exists, nor could it as all air is naturally polluted to some extent.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If our property rights don't extend to the air we breathe, then why aren't you allowed to set up shop in the lot next to me and burn hazardous materials? On what basis can I sue you? IMO the landowner has property rights extending to the air he breathes and if you infringe on that right, he can sue for damages or to prevent you from infringing on his property rights to enjoy the use of his property without being poisoned by YOUR acts.

    Alternatively, my neighbor can do as he wishes on his property, and there is nothing but a law that can prevent him from inflicting harm on me by poisoning the air I breath, killing my dogs, or cattle. If I want the burning to stop, I have to pay HIM.

    Holy ****!
    You clearly do not know of what you speak.

    The two underlined are not the same. Sorry you do not know that.
    Nor is that the same argument that was made and has been refuted. It is sad that you do not understand that.

    Pay attention.

    Again.
    No such "right" exists.

    Again.
    You are speaking to law. Not a "right".

    Again.
    No such "right" to unpolluted air exists, nor could it as all air is naturally polluted to some extent.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Not according to the law. Everyone has the same freedom to spend as much or as little money as they wish to promote their political opinions. Equal under the law means they cant make a law that says you get more speech if you can afford it. There are no such laws.
    It's not the "same freedom" if we have vastly different capacities.

    That's like arguing that the handicapped have the "same freedom" to walk up that flight of stairs at the courthouse as the rest of the able-bodied population.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Your failure to understand you are wrong and why you are wrong is your problem. Not mine.
    You are clearly speaking about that which you know not.
    Sorry but yelling something really loud doesn't make it true. I don't care if you address the points or not, but why bother repeating the same non-answer?

    Maybe this hair we are splitting is whether my right to be protected against your poisonous burning isn't a right emanating from my property but my person. If so, fine. Whatever. You could just say so and we'd have moved on long ago.

    But you're asserting that my ability to prevent you from polluting the air I breath is contingent on a law prohibiting pollution is nonsense. Those laws simply reflect how society has codified my rights. If there was no statute specifically related to pollution on the books, I could still sue you for damages because your pollution interferes with my ability to enjoy the use of my property, or because I have an action against you based on my right not to be harmed by your acts. In either case, you have violated my RIGHTS, not just some law, which reflects those rights.

    No such "right" to unpolluted air exists, nor could it as all air is naturally polluted to some extent.
    Is this your point? OK, we don't have a right to "unpolluted" air, in large part because when the pollution is minimal, it's impossible for me to prove DAMAGES. But that's a straw man. You're just pointing out a limit on all rights. I have a right not to be physically assaulted by you. If you brush up against me while in the subway, there are no damages, and so I cannot exercise my right against "assault" and extend that right to ANY touching.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    It's not the "same freedom" if we have vastly different capacities.

    That's like arguing that the handicapped have the "same freedom" to walk up that flight of stairs at the courthouse as the rest of the able-bodied population.
    No its not. Its like saying govt cant make a law which says only able bodied people can walk up that flight of stairs. The purpose of govt is not to ensure equal outcome, that everyone reaches the top of the stairs. Its to ensure you are free to try.

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