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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by PureVanilla View Post
    It's no coincidence that Romney made his announcement just days after the Koch brothers revealed they are buying the White House in 2016. He doesn't have that kind of money. Several homes and an elevator for his car in La Jolla, yes. That kind of money, no.
    That's nice except...

    Romney told supporters on Friday morning that he will not make a third attempt at the presidency, according to the Washington Post. UPDATED: Mitt Passes On Third Chance at Losing
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    That's nice except...

    Who was he supposed to tell? His detractors? I don't think Romney, or any politician, is going to say, "I'm announcing my withdrawal from presidential race because I can't outspend the Koch brothers"? Even though that is the truth.

    If it's the timeline you are referring to, the Koch brothers press release of their $889,000,000 war chest was announced several days before Romney bowed out.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by PureVanilla View Post
    Who was he supposed to tell? His detractors? I don't think Romney, or any politician, is going to say, "I'm announcing my withdrawal from presidential race because I can't outspend the Koch brothers"? Even though that is the truth.

    If it's the timeline you are referring to, the Koch brothers press release of their $889,000,000 war chest was announced several days before Romney bowed out.
    but it is a bit of a stretch to say that Romney bowed out because of the Koch brothers. Why would he have had a part of that campaign chest for his own run?

    Personally, I was surprised that he even considered running after having promised his wife he would not put her through another campaign.

    Now, the Koch brothers are astute capitalists. Were they not, they wouldn't be sitting on a fortune with the capability of spending nearly a billion dollars to get their way politically. Astute capitalists, the ones who are able to amass huge fortunes, aren't going to spend all that money without a good chance for a return on investment. If that's not buying political influence, I don't know what is.

    It's way past time for meaningful campaign finance reform. Let the billionaires invest elsewhere besides purchasing elections.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I'm not going to throw out a dollar amount, but in general, if we're to accept that "all men are created equal," then there shouldn't be men who have millions of times more influence than others, at least without being vetted by the election process, which includes checks and balances.

    Did you ever learn about equal opportunity vs equal outcome? You think this country was built on equal outcome? Do you honestly not understand incentives?

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I'm not going to throw out a dollar amount, but in general, if we're to accept that "all men are created equal," then there shouldn't be men who have millions of times more influence than others, at least without being vetted by the election process, which includes checks and balances.
    That just means laws should treat people as if they are equal. As in there should not be a law which says you have more free speech because you are rich. But in the absence of the law, everyone IS equal to pursue happiness, which means no limits on the capital they accumulate.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Freedom of speech takes a plethora of forms.

    Flag burning

    Handing out pamphlets

    Writing and distributing books.

    Broadcasting your ideas like Rush Limbaugh or Rachel maddow.

    Donating to campaigns. (Money talks, right?).

    You can do your own speaking or pY someone to speak in your behalf.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Arguing that campaign donations must buy favors because they wouldn't be made if they don't buy favors is circular logic.
    You've already said you agreed with me so I'm not sure what your point actually is - maybe you're hanging your hat on "buy favors."

    Why don't you tell me what the Kochs bought with all their donations in 2012? Be specific about the favors they purchased with the millions they spent.
    You've got a computer with search functions - Koch backed candidates won all over the country, especially in state races, in the past several cycles. I've mentioned some of these, you ignored them, then ask the same question again. It's not worth the effort.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You've already said you agreed with me so I'm not sure what your point actually is - maybe you're hanging your hat on "buy favors."

    You've got a computer with search functions - Koch backed candidates won all over the country, especially in state races, in the past several cycles. I've mentioned some of these, you ignored them, then ask the same question again. It's not worth the effort.
    You're right. It's not worth the effort. In 2012 the Kochs spent many millions. The result? Another 4 years of Obama and democrat control of the senate. I don't blame you for not wanting to put up the "ROI" figures that the Kochs got for their contributions. There isn't any "return on investment" because the donations aren't an "investment". They're "donations". Maybe you're hanging your hat on an inability to distinguish the difference.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    but it is a bit of a stretch to say that Romney bowed out because of the Koch brothers. Why would he have had a part of that campaign chest for his own run?

    Personally, I was surprised that he even considered running after having promised his wife he would not put her through another campaign.

    Now, the Koch brothers are astute capitalists. Were they not, they wouldn't be sitting on a fortune with the capability of spending nearly a billion dollars to get their way politically. Astute capitalists, the ones who are able to amass huge fortunes, aren't going to spend all that money without a good chance for a return on investment. If that's not buying political influence, I don't know what is.

    It's way past time for meaningful campaign finance reform. Let the billionaires invest elsewhere besides purchasing elections.
    Romney is too liberal for the Kochs. He would never see any of those funds, maybe token taxi money.
    The Kochs are going to invest that money in Tea Party/far right evangelical candidates, as they did in the mid-terms. And if successful, they will be running America with the sock puppet of their choice in the White House.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
    ― Upton Sinclair

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by PureVanilla View Post
    Romney is too liberal for the Kochs. He would never see any of those funds, maybe token taxi money.
    The Kochs are going to invest that money in Tea Party/far right evangelical candidates, as they did in the mid-terms. And if successful, they will be running America with the sock puppet of their choice in the White House.
    There you have it. If a republican president wins it will be because the Koch brothers bought a sock puppet.

    And if a democrat wins then... well, nevermind. Let's talk about something else if that happens.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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