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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I think million dollar weddings and billion dollar campaign buying are both offensive, which is all the more reason to limit the degree to which individuals acquire such unreasonable amounts of money.
    It seems so simple to flush the Marxists out of the woods.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm not worried about me....but advertising is very influential with a great number of the electorate. It is a known fact that money can sway an election which is why the "Citizen's United" case was such a fiasco. As a result, our Whitehouse faces the real danger of being bought by the highest bidder. We need real campaign reform and ideally we would have publically financed campaigns and get private money out. Then...it would be about the candidates and the issues and less about a 60 second sound bite.
    If we eliminate legal plunder no one will want, or need, to buy politicians. It is time for the state legislatures to weigh in with an Article V Convention of states to propose amendments. We need to reform our Constitution and prevent the politicians from utterly destroying us.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I did not say that worker owned businesses are going to avoid the ups and downs of the economy and I don't know of any reason why they need special regulations to be adopted and forced upon the economy to protect this "model." They will face all the same challenges as other businesses. The difference between a worker owned business and a typical corporation is that the owners will not have an incentive to screw over the workers simply to increase profits. The workers may choose to reduce their wages or benefits, maybe even lay off a few people at times so they can survive a bad economic period. But they won't take such measures unless it is necessary for survival. By comparison, we have seen profitable companies close factories and move overseas only so the top executives can keep their high salaries and the majority stock holders can see a quicker and larger profit from their investments.

    Well then, I have no idea what you meant when you mentioned "implement regulations".

    My point is that workers and others can organize, take action to create alternative business models and implement regulations so that workers aren't divided and conquered by plutocrats trying to maximize profits by sacrificing their employee's quality of life.

    As to closing factories, the managers have a fiduciary duty to see to it that the company survives. Prove to me they took such action just to preserve their high salaries.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    It hasn't been tried because it is not in the interest of the people in power to do it. The people will need to force the issue. Also, globalization is relatively recent phenomena enabled by improved transportation and communications technologies.

    As I previously said, the assessment of whether a country provides adequate wages and decent working conditions needs to account for different costs of living in other countries. If the owners of overseas factories don't care about the welfare of their workers they are likely to change their mind if they lose all business from a nation as large and wealthy as the USA. If the movement to ban exports from exploitative businesses and nations without basic worker's rights goes international, it will become even more effective. The international boycotts and embargoes of apartheid era South Africa are one example of using trade policy to impact policies in another nation.

    In many places workers are too desperate or lack the protection of their civil rights required to effectively advocate for their own interests.

    The USA already has embargoes against other nations such as Iran, Russia and Cuba. The existing enforcement mechanism for those embargoes would be used for enforcing future embargoes.

    Note that before NAFTA and the opening of trade with China, worker's in the USA enjoyed more employment stability, the protection of union jobs, a better standard of living and less unemployment. Opening up those markets may have been benefited some people at the top of our economic food chain, but it has mostly hurt workers.
    What's stopping people from organizing themselves on a greater scale and doing it themselves? You blame people in power. It seems to mee you should pointing to the people who don't take the power unto themselves. You attempt to cover that by claiming there are "many places" workers are too desperate or lack protection of their civil rights. Where would that be? Words are cheap.

    Before opening trade with China, union power was dwindling because unions aren't interested in the health of the employers, they are only interested in the power of the union.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Didn't those "leaders" need to have followers, and investors/supporters helping them to move and build in the more fertile land? Individual innovation and risk taking is important, but so is team building, cooperation and community. We can't have leaders without followers, and people don't follow unless there is a benefit for them.
    Leaders don't wait for followers before they act. At least that is my experience. Followers follow because they assume they might benefit. Some make good decisions when choosing who or what to follow. Obviously team building, cooperation and community are important. However, you left out one. Contribution. And I suppose one more, responsibility. Fail to provide both, and things quickly unravel.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and money doesn't sway elections and affect legislation? Really? How wonderful! We no longer have an oligarchy! Time to celebrate!
    We never did.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It seems so simple to flush the Marxists out of the woods.
    They self-identify. The stench of class envy is impossible to ignore.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    They self-identify. The stench of class envy is impossible to ignore.
    You're in a fantasy land. Some of the richest ****s in the world are liberal. It has nothing to do with envy. And no one is enviable of you, specifically, either.

    Now that I know you think liberals in general are liars, it'll be much easier to address you in argument from now on. There is no need for evidence, reason, or thought because your extremist ideology trumps all of that anyway.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    You're in a fantasy land. Some of the richest ****s in the world are liberal. It has nothing to do with envy. And no one is enviable of you, specifically, either.

    Now that I know you think liberals in general are liars, it'll be much easier to address you in argument from now on. There is no need for evidence, reason, or thought because your extremist ideology trumps all of that anyway.
    Marxists reveal themselves readily with the stench of class envy that they exude.

    I didn't say they were envious of me.
    I didn't say that there weren't rich liberals.

    So why don't you just can the silly-ass strawman tactics. Strawman combined with personal insult doesn't say anything about me, but it says something about you.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Marxists reveal themselves readily with the stench of class envy that they exude.

    I didn't say they were envious of me.
    I didn't say that there weren't rich liberals.

    So why don't you just can the silly-ass strawman tactics. Strawman combined with personal insult doesn't say anything about me, but it says something about you.
    Speaking of strawmen, there is a difference between being concerned about the largely unchecked power that wealth accumulation provides individuals in our society and "class envy."

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