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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And if we get ONE Libertarian elected to Congress what committee would that person serve on and what significant change could that person make being one out of 435?
    They could submit legislation, they could rally the troops. If its in the Senate they would have more power. My point however was that all that money spent by the Kochs is a waste. They cant actually pay people to vote so the best they can do is make sure people they like show up on the ballot.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please explain to me why we have a State EPA AND a Federal EPA? You think the state EPA wants dirty air to breath? Doubt that any Federal Bureaucrat in D.C. is breathing any dirty air from your state.
    I'm not sure why there has to be a duplication of effort, but the fact of the matter is air circulates around the world. My dirty air is your dirty air.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    They could submit legislation, they could rally the troops. If its in the Senate they would have more power. My point however was that all that money spent by the Kochs is a waste. They cant actually pay people to vote so the best they can do is make sure people they like show up on the ballot.
    and money doesn't sway elections and affect legislation? Really? How wonderful! We no longer have an oligarchy! Time to celebrate!
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please explain to me why we have a State EPA AND a Federal EPA? You think the state EPA wants dirty air to breath? Doubt that any Federal Bureaucrat in D.C. is breathing any dirty air from your state.
    The reason we have a Federal EPA is because states weren't regulating pollution in many cases. Too easy to buy off the legislature and the Governor.

    It's an example of something we see all the time. We do have cleaner air and water, thanks to decades of work by people committed to making that happen, and some fairly wide reaching laws regulating pollution on a national level. And now that the air and water is fairly clean, conservatives can pretend that the laws that, e.g. eliminated lead from gasoline, are no longer needed because the markets that failed before we had big government intervene and regulate pollution will work better next time, or this time the states won't compete for almighty JOBS! by offering the lowest common denominator environmental destination for industry.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    As your link illustrated, stock holders are owners too. And in many cases, they are also employees. Cooperatives exist, and have had limited success, but have failed in the majority of cases to carry on to a larger scale due to division of effort and vision conflicts.

    ESOP's have been around a long time, so I'm not sure the point you're trying to make.
    The point is that worker owned businesses are one method to create a better balance between worker's rights and needs and owner's desire for profits. I disagree with the statement "It is a fantasy to think that kind of employment environment can be created."

    The plutocrats and their conservative allies constantly try to convince us that individual initiative is the only way to achieve a rewarding work life and that we need to accept the ups and downs of the global economy and corporate/plutocrat decisions. My point is that workers and others can organize, take action to create alternative business models and implement regulations so that workers aren't divided and conquered by plutocrats trying to maximize profits by sacrificing their employee's quality of life.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    What do you think the cost of living is in Thailand? What do you think it is in other countries where manufacturing is taking place? There will never be parity, no matter what is tried. How about domestically?

    It's interesting you sliced out just one point you thought you could address.
    Why are you convinced that requiring importers of goods into the USA to meet standards for adequate pay and safe conditions for all workers will fail? It has never been tried. We already successfully prohibit goods from certain nations for political reasons, we can make worker welfare and safety another reason to ban or limit imports from a particular country. There are already several voluntary/consumer inspired measures that have had some success. One example:

    "Two big groups of retailers and apparel brands have completed a major step toward advancing garment-factory safety in Bangladesh: They have finished inspecting nearly 1,700 factories in that country.

    A European-dominated group — the Bangladesh Accord on Fire and Building Safety, with 189 corporate members, including H&M and Carrefour — said on Tuesday that it had found more than 80,000 safety problems in the 1,106 factories it inspected.

    The other — an American-dominated group, the Alliance for Bangladesh Worker Safety — completed inspections in July of the 587 factories that its 26 members, including Walmart, Gap and Target, use in that country.

    The groups are working with Bangladeshi factory owners to promote safety and finance improvements, like fireproof doors or fire-sprinkler systems, that are required for garment factories 75 feet or taller in Bangladesh...."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/14/bu...ies-.html?_r=0

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You are speaking to law. Not a "right".

    Again.
    No such "right" exists.
    There is no right to damage a vital resource shared by everyone by contaminating it.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'm not sure why there has to be a duplication of effort, but the fact of the matter is air circulates around the world. My dirty air is your dirty air.
    But the most dirty air is coming out of D.C. and there is nothing the Federal Govt. can do to stop it, only the electorate can stop it and as Gruber stated many aren't very smart

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The reason we have a Federal EPA is because states weren't regulating pollution in many cases. Too easy to buy off the legislature and the Governor.

    It's an example of something we see all the time. We do have cleaner air and water, thanks to decades of work by people committed to making that happen, and some fairly wide reaching laws regulating pollution on a national level. And now that the air and water is fairly clean, conservatives can pretend that the laws that, e.g. eliminated lead from gasoline, are no longer needed because the markets that failed before we had big government intervene and regulate pollution will work better next time, or this time the states won't compete for almighty JOBS! by offering the lowest common denominator environmental destination for industry.
    You mean to Federal bureaucrat standards. You really think that a Federal bureaucrat cares about dirty air more than the people of the state that breathe it? If the states aren't regulating it, then why are the people of the state condoning it? What makes you think a Federal Bureaucrat gives a damn?

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The point is that worker owned businesses are one method to create a better balance between worker's rights and needs and owner's desire for profits. I disagree with the statement "It is a fantasy to think that kind of employment environment can be created."

    The plutocrats and their conservative allies constantly try to convince us that individual initiative is the only way to achieve a rewarding work life and that we need to accept the ups and downs of the global economy and corporate/plutocrat decisions. My point is that workers and others can organize, take action to create alternative business models and implement regulations so that workers aren't divided and conquered by plutocrats trying to maximize profits by sacrificing their employee's quality of life.
    And in some magical way, these worker owned businesses are going to avoid the ups and downs of the economy? I can't imagine what type of regulations could be adopted and forced upon the economy that would protect this "model" you are describing. At no time in human history has such a thing taken place on any grand scale, and for any significant length of time, at least that I am aware of.

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