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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    The rules will never be equal. Equality has no place in the economy of the United States.
    I meant neutral - and if you're arguing that the results are "fair" because the results are what they are, then by definition you assume the rules of the game that affect the outcome don't favor one side or the other.

    How would you restrict the free exchange of capital? Why should labor be free to be exchanged?
    One way is how China does it - allows capital to enter the country with no limits, but requires permission to transfer it out. Limit technology transfers, who knows what limits we could decide on.

    And if you support "free markets" on what principle do you allow for capital to cross borders freely, but not people, workers? As I said, I'm not a supporter of "free markets" (there is no such thing) and so rationally support capital AND labor restrictions, if we determine they're in our national interests.

    The fact is, you've got de facto free exchange in labor now. Peasants from other countries are being rewarded by the current administration and people of similar ideological beliefs. At the same time people are calling for economic equality despite their support for this damaging influx of labor. Such realities make the "equality" call rather weak.
    Again, take that up with someone who supports open borders. I don't and never have. And we don't have "de factor free exchange in labor" now or ever. Finally, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II have also "rewarded" those "peasants" crossing the border. Making this partisan doesn't help your credibility. Find some numbers on the "illegal" population and growth between 2000-2008 and then since 2008 and get back to us. Or look at the numbers deported under Bush versus Obama, etc.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    And they do this due to their love for their country. Thoughts are?

    Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/us...=top-news&_r=0

    The political network overseen by the conservative billionaires Charles G. and David H. Koch plans to spend close to $900 million on the 2016 campaign, an unparalelled effort by outside groups to shape a presidential election that is already on track to be the most expensive in history.

    The goal, revealed Monday at the Kochs’ annual winter donor retreat near Palm Springs, Calif., would effectively allow their political organization to operate at the same financial scale as the Democratic and Republican parties. In the last presidential election, the Republican National Committee and the party’s two congressional campaign committees spent a total of $657 million.
    I'm expecting that the expect, and probably will get, a good return on investment.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryOfromCA View Post
    Ironic. . . . the same leftist extremists who reject any sort of rules or morality from a church or the Bible, are happy to have rules or morality imposed by an all-powerful government created by humans. Such is the hypocrisy, and stupidity, of Liberalism.
    It surprises you that leftists prefer to have laws created by humans through a representational (semi-)democratic process rather than accept the moral authority of your preferred interpreters of an ancient book that has gone through numerous revisions, yet is claimed to be the word of an inconsistent, but vengeful and destructive, invisible all-powerful sky monster?

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I expressed no opinion as to whether particular programs should be funded at the local, state or federal level so you are attacking a straw man.
    No, I am pointing out there is quite a bit of difference between what a state does and what the Federal Govt. does which defines states' rights. What a state does is up to the people of the state. It seems you want a federal bureaucrat to dictate what your state does or doesn't do. You have a choice of living in a particular state or moving. Hard to do when you are talking about the entire country. A one size fits all program sounds good until you look at the Federal Record and the disaster that record is. I prefer states implementing programs closer to the people, the question is why don't you?

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    LOL.

    The only trap that has been sprung is the one you tripped yourself. I really don't understand the Progressives fixation with Luntz. What does this obsession prove?

    Perhaps it would be more beneficial to discover why jobs are so precious today, rather than follow the rest of the lemmings and lap up the "rich are evil" memes Progressives are required to eat daily.
    Jobs are so precious today due to forty years of automation and outsourcing.

    Do try to keep up.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    And again.

    If that were the case, automobiles and chimneys would have been outlawed long ago.


    Stop playing silly. No such right exists.
    There are legal limits on the amount of dangerous pollution that cars and factories can emit. Even home fireplaces are banned in some areas.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, I think you need to look a little further, and a little deeper. One major missing ingredient is the return on investment derived from a mindset that involves responsibility. When someone makes a decision to be, what in effect is, a follower, it is unreasonable to demand they receive the benefits of being a leader.

    Let me see if I can explain my rational for believing this.

    Remove all commercial economic "rewards" from any endeavor. For it to be successful, there can't be 20 chefs, and no servers. Someone has to step up and help direct the effort. That person most likely is not going to be down in the mud with the others. Is it fair for the others to demand similar treatment? If the leader is particularly skilled at directing the others, should they not receive some extra benefit? Wouldn't other groups want to have that person provide the same skills to their endeavors, and be willing to offer even greater benefits for agreeing to do so? Should the people down in the mud demand even louder that they receive equal treatment?

    Distribution is fair today, because it is what it is. Do I think top CEO's need to be paid on average $10 million per year? I leave that to board of directors, and the compensation committee. Ultimately it comes down to the stakeholders. Do I think the workers "out in the trenches" should begrudge the CEO? Well, I'm sure they'd like to get 1/10th of the CEO's pay. The question becomes, what's stopping them from trying, and if they don't try, why are they complaining?
    Your argument acknowledges that there's a low percentage of inherent "leadership" roles available for society to efficiently accomplish goals. Should the majority of citizens sacrifice access to greater equality because they're team players? You're disincentivizing order and organization by supporting a system that's admittedly "winner take all."
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, I am pointing out there is quite a bit of difference between what a state does and what the Federal Govt. does which defines states' rights. What a state does is up to the people of the state. It seems you want a federal bureaucrat to dictate what your state does or doesn't do. You have a choice of living in a particular state or moving. Hard to do when you are talking about the entire country. A one size fits all program sounds good until you look at the Federal Record and the disaster that record is. I prefer states implementing programs closer to the people, the question is why don't you?
    You mean, things like, oh, I dunno... maybe regulating health insurance?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Until very recently, union membership, or at least payment of dues, was not voluntary. It would still be that way if unions had their way. The unions in turn could spend that money in any manner they wished. And they have. Look at the spending on political campaigns by AFSCME. Or the SEIU.
    Workers can decertify a union if they want to. The members of those unions consented to that political spending, although most of them probably did so passively by not voting or attending meetings. Union donations to the appropriate campaigns is a good investment since many politicians would ban or defang unions if they could.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Jobs are so precious today due to forty years of automation and outsourcing.

    Do try to keep up.
    LOL

    I know it's important to avoid understanding why.

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