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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Most people in the USA have no problem with socialized schools, emergency medical services, police, fire fighting, road building and repair, public transportation etc. but if you advocate for socialized medical care you are labeled a socialist. (even though we already have socialized medicine which is provided in public health clinics, public hospital emergency rooms and veterans hospitals and clinics.)
    Most people in this country realize that schools, EMS, police, fire fighting, road building and repairs, public transportation are State and local expenses not a Federal Expense. Seems you don't understand what your taxes fund or even what taxes you pay. Why is that?

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No you don't.
    You have a right to petition the Government for redress of your grievance, but as of yet there is nothing enunciated anywhere within the Constitution that says you have a "right" to breathe unpolluted air.

    If that were the case, automobiles and chimneys would have been outlawed long ago.
    The constitution is not the only authority regarding our rights. It only limits which rights can not be taken away by the government in the USA.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Most people in this country realize that schools, EMS, police, fire fighting, road building and repairs, public transportation are State and local expenses not a Federal Expense. Seems you don't understand what your taxes fund or even what taxes you pay. Why is that?
    So what? I am well aware of which programs are funded by which level of government. (By the way, many of those services are subsidized with federal grants) Those are all government funded programs, usually with the work done by government workers. Which level of government funds the program is irrelevant to the fact that they are socialized services that are not controversial.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    So what? I am well aware of which programs are funded by which level of government. (By the way, many of those services are subsidized with federal grants) Those are all government funded programs, usually with the work done by government workers. Which level of government funds the program is irrelevant to the fact that they are socialized services that are not controversial.
    Where in the hell did you get that information? I doubt seriously that you have any clue as to what your taxes fund and where the money comes from for the services in your state and community. You don't seem to understand state and local rights and responsibilities. What is it about liberalism that creates people like you who ignores the Federal Results and failures? Name for me one, just one Federal Social program that ever cost what it was supposed to cost and did what it was supposed to do, actually solved a problem? If state programs are socialized then the state can revoke them through the electorate, try to do that on a national scale?

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where in the hell did you get that information? I doubt seriously that you have any clue as to what your taxes fund and where the money comes from for the services in your state and community. You don't seem to understand state and local rights and responsibilities. What is it about liberalism that creates people like you who ignores the Federal Results and failures? Name for me one, just one Federal Social program that ever cost what it was supposed to cost and did what it was supposed to do, actually solved a problem? If state programs are socialized then the state can revoke them through the electorate, try to do that on a national scale?
    What information? Are you claiming that the federal government never subsidizes local and state government with grants?*

    I expressed no opinion as to whether particular programs should be funded at the local, state or federal level, so you are attacking a straw man. I understand that you don't like federal programs, but that has nothing to do with whether the programs are socialized (government provided) or privatized (provided by a non-governmental entity such as a business or non-profit group).



    *Here's just the first example that came to my mind: The Ryan White HIV/AIDS Program works with cities, states, and local community-based organizations to provide services to an estimated 536,000 people each year who do not have sufficient health care coverage or financial resources to cope with HIV disease...Part A provides emergency assistance to Eligible Metropolitan Areas and Transitional Grant Areas that are most severely affected by the HIV/AIDS epidemic. Part B provides grants to all 50 States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and 5 U.S. Pacific Territories or Associated Jurisdictions...." http://hab.hrsa.gov/abouthab/aboutprogram.html
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-29-15 at 10:36 PM.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I expressed no opinion as to whether particular programs should be funded at the local, state or federal level so you are attacking a straw man. I understand that you don't like federal programs, but that has nothing to do with whether the programs are socialized (government provided) or privatized (provided by a non-governmental entity such as a business or non-profit group).
    What bothers me is that you don't seem to understand states' rights as well as responsibilities and how the govt. closer to the people is what our Founders created. Whether or not it is socialized is up to the people of the state and if you don't like state operations it is easy to move. Why you put so much faith in a federal bureaucrat vs someone local is beyond comprehension and seems to me nothing more than basically shirking your responsibility as a citizen of the state. It is easier to change policies in the state than the Federal govt. but far too many don't seem to like that reality. What is it about Federal programs and control that excites you?

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    ....ok. My point was that the need to give freedom to all men (of all races) in this country was obvious, and the other side's argument was that they had the right to own slaves and it wasn't the government's place to decide what and who they could and couldn't own. The need to protect the right of a man to own a slave was nowhere near as important as the need to protect a man's right to be free and you can't have it both ways. Today, we are steadily losing our system of freely electing officials because of the efforts of men with enormous wealth. It is obvious that we need to protect our democracy. You can repeat yourself all you want. But, unless you believe that we can allow both individuals and corporations to donate as much as they want to individual candidates, parties and PACs, AND that this will not result in the loss of the free democratic election as we have always known it, then I don't know why you're even bothering to comment.
    Greetings, Mustachio.

    All the various donors don't bother me, but I remember when the Democrats yelled foul after the Supreme Court leveled the playing field by allowing businesses, as well as unions, to also contribute monies to an election effort, and they are now accepting money from them, from the very top on down. Obama stated he would stop the practice, but it's still in place and both sides take advantage of it. Do they influence how a person votes by using advertising to sway a voter's opinion one way or another, which is really the most important thing? Maybe not, as Soros learned in the midterms after giving millions to Democrat candidates.

    What I think needs to be changed is the electoral college, which over-rules the individual voter, since it's winner-take-all by State. It could be 51-49 statistically, but it disenfranchises millions of voters, and I don't think that's fair. State elections are a matter of how many votes a candidate gets, which determines who won. Period. If there's a question, vote counting can be redone. The electoral college is outdated, IMO, since the reason for it has changed since it was put in place hundreds of years ago, due to TV and the internet being used to keep people updated on what's going on - things they did not have available to them back then.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    CEO's are rewarded for performance of their companies and no company is in business to employ people but rather to make a profit. No question about it you have idea where the funds come from to pay employees and the CEO's. Hope that money tree in your parent's backyard never runs out of leaves.
    So you agree with me that the rich shouldn't be called "job creators".

    Thank you.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    So you agree with me that the rich shouldn't be called "job creators".

    Thank you.
    I sure wish you and others would understand why businesses are in business as well as the fact that businesses are run by people

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I sure wish you and others would understand why businesses are in business as well as the fact that businesses are run by people
    Do you think campaign contributions or other political spending should be subject to a yea/nea vote by the shareholders?

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