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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Free political speech is constitutionally protected by the First Amendment. Slave holders forfeited their property rights in slaves when they attempted to overturn the democratic result of the 1860 election by rebelling against the federal government. Their slaves thereby became contraband of war.

    I do not believe our elected officials should be able to ration our political speech.

    ". . . The war powers act of the Constitution gives the president broad powers for waging war. The president could make certain proclamations and decrees and issue executive orders within the context of fighting a war. The Civil War was fought on American soil. Captured rebel territory under the occupation of union troops was under federal jurisdiction. As long as the war continued, the president could issue decrees concerning the administration of occupied territories — provided that those decrees were necessary to the war effort.

    Lincoln's lawyers argued that an Emancipation Proclamation could be constitutionally legal provided that, 1) It was a time of war, 2) the emancipation was limited to slave states under union occupation and administration, and 3) emancipation would be helpful in winning the war. Lincoln pronounced to his cabinet, "...it was a military necessity to the salvation of the Union, that we must free the slaves or be ourselves subdued.". . . "
    Can you tell me how all these rich Pacs- unions - help democracy - they all get paid off. if you want to cover it with the 1st - go right ahead. The 1ts is what SCOTUS determines it to be. My opinion- with all that cash- it undermines democracy - it buys influence - when you have an individual, sending 50 million of their own money for a Senate election- what else can you call it.
    The Koch Bros are not doing this for love of country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  2. #632
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Can I name a CEO who set out to put people to work as opposed to having to hire people to generate profit? What kind of question is that? They are one in the same.

    Unless a CEO is hired to wrap up business of a failing company, every CEO I know of sets out to grow their business. In almost every case that results in more people being hired.

    Your meme about the origin of "job creators" is humorous to read, but I prefer reality over fiction.
    Fell right into that trap!

    "Job Creators": Luntz Strikes Again | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

    As to the rest, y'all's manufactured memes are starting to collide.

    First there was no income inequality. Then it was all the increases in productivity were from investments in technology, but non-ownership-class people have nothing to fear from automation. Then, in the face of this, ya try to ram this "job creator" nonsense down our throats, when they've been doing the exact opposite of "job creation for almost forty years now (and no, exploiting a desperate person's desperation overseas isn't "job creation" either. Its "job reduction" because they took a job that paid "x" and turned into a job that pays a tiny fraction of "x".
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    ....ok. My point was that the need to give freedom to all men (of all races) in this country was obvious, and the other side's argument was that they had the right to own slaves and it wasn't the government's place to decide what and who they could and couldn't own. The need to protect the right of a man to own a slave was nowhere near as important as the need to protect a man's right to be free and you can't have it both ways. Today, we are steadily losing our system of freely electing officials because of the efforts of men with enormous wealth. It is obvious that we need to protect our democracy. You can repeat yourself all you want. But, unless you believe that we can allow both individuals and corporations to donate as much as they want to individual candidates, parties and PACs, AND that this will not result in the loss of the free democratic election as we have always known it, then I don't know why you're even bothering to comment.
    I'm commenting because I disagree with you completely. It is a bulwark of democracy and freedom that individuals can fund political speech outside government control.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Can you tell me how all these rich Pacs- unions - help democracy - they all get paid off. if you want to cover it with the 1st - go right ahead. The 1ts is what SCOTUS determines it to be. My opinion- with all that cash- it undermines democracy - it buys influence - when you have an individual, sending 50 million of their own money for a Senate election- what else can you call it.
    The Koch Bros are not doing this for love of country.
    The reason it works is because multiple donors representing multiple points of view compete and prevent any single one from achieving untrammeled influence.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The reason it works is because multiple donors representing multiple points of view compete and prevent any single one from achieving untrammeled influence.
    Belive that if you wish. Believe they are doing what is best for the country. I differ. As they all buy access, and they all buy influence.
    To think otherwise is well...........................fiction
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  6. #636
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Belive that if you wish. Believe they are doing what is best for the country. I differ. As they all buy access, and they all buy influence.
    To think otherwise is well...........................fiction
    They are doing what they think is best for themselves, and in competing that way they do something good for the country.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Earning doesn't have a permanent, objective definition. It's entirely contextual. So, my thoughts on whether someone "earned" 10k/year or "earned" their billions are going to vary from yours.
    .....
    Good point. "Earning" millions from investments that you inherited is pretty different from earning a couple hundred dollars for picking grapes for two weeks.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Which has nothing to do with what I posted.
    Have you read Citizens United and understand corporate personhood? The law says corporations can donate directly to political campaigns. Corporations are people.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're contradicting yourself in the same post. The "socialism" that the left in America "glorifies" is roughly "governments like Canada." It's certainly nothing like the former Soviet bloc countries (or Cuba) that you're calling examples of "socialism" (and, yes, I've been there..). I'm sure some on the "left" favor that, but some on the right are fascists and outright white supremacists, and it would be just as illegitimate to define the conservative MOVEMENT by its most radical fringe elements.

    It's part of the problem - "socialism" in America means roughly, positions "ideologically left of me."
    Most people in the USA have no problem with socialized schools, emergency medical services, police, fire fighting, road building and repair, public transportation etc. but if you advocate for socialized medical care you are labeled a socialist. (even though we already have socialized medicine which is provided in public health clinics, public hospital emergency rooms and veterans hospitals and clinics.)

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The Left likes to pick on the Koch Brothers, so about your Soros?
    I have addressed this three times already in this thread. I am against being ruled by select group of people. The people we vote into office should listen to all of us, instead they only listening to their donors. When I listen to right wing radio, they even complain about the "donor class."

    Now to get back to your statement that government creates inequality, not the 1%. I don't understand the difference if it's largely the 1% influencing government policy.

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