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Thread: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

  1. #621
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Go back and read what I posted before assuming thing.
    Seems some Conservative have a bad habit of assuming. Almost a bad quality.
    Not good for the discussion when you do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
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    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    My apologies for not always replying. On vacation, well no apologies for that.
    In the Turks & Caicos - No apologies for that either.
    But the internet keeps on dropping and cannot open multi tabs to reply- ah heck - no apologies for that either.
    Why am I apologizing- Polite fella I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  3. #623
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    A laughably tortured and roundabout argument. I believe in free, unrationed political speech.
    I never said you didn't. I said that you don't believe in keeping democracy from being purchased by the highest bidder. Unfortunately for your point of view, you can't preserve freedom by allowing free choice to disappear from our system of electing officials. I'm not sure what you mean by "roundabout argument" since my argument was as concise as any could be. If you felt my argument was flawed, you should address it and not dismiss it.
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    I never said you didn't. I said that you don't believe in keeping democracy from being purchased by the highest bidder. Unfortunately for your point of view, you can't preserve freedom by allowing free choice to disappear from our system of electing officials. I'm not sure what you mean by "roundabout argument" since my argument was as concise as any could be. If you felt my argument was flawed, you should address it and not dismiss it.
    Free political speech is constitutionally protected by the First Amendment. Slave holders forfeited their property rights in slaves when they attempted to overturn the democratic result of the 1860 election by rebelling against the federal government. Their slaves thereby became contraband of war.

    I do not believe our elected officials should be able to ration our political speech.

    ". . . The war powers act of the Constitution gives the president broad powers for waging war. The president could make certain proclamations and decrees and issue executive orders within the context of fighting a war. The Civil War was fought on American soil. Captured rebel territory under the occupation of union troops was under federal jurisdiction. As long as the war continued, the president could issue decrees concerning the administration of occupied territories — provided that those decrees were necessary to the war effort.

    Lincoln's lawyers argued that an Emancipation Proclamation could be constitutionally legal provided that, 1) It was a time of war, 2) the emancipation was limited to slave states under union occupation and administration, and 3) emancipation would be helpful in winning the war. Lincoln pronounced to his cabinet, "...it was a military necessity to the salvation of the Union, that we must free the slaves or be ourselves subdued.". . . "
    Last edited by Jack Hays; 01-29-15 at 08:36 PM.
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  5. #625
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    That's still in the top 1% internationally, which according to the thread's namesake is acceptable income.
    In your world you get to decide what's acceptable. Best thing for you is not to live in a capitalist country. Why do you insist on trying to change the US, when there are plenty of countries out there that like to dictate people lives that would satisfy you? I don't understand you people, you always want to fundamentally change this country. And it's never the government's fault either. It's always some big business.....big oil, big whatever....the 1%.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Free political speech is constitutionally protected by the First Amendment. Slave holders forfeited their property rights in slaves when they attempted to overturn the democratic result of the 1860 election by rebelling against the federal government. Their slaves thereby became contraband of war.

    I do not believe our elected officials should be able to ration our political speech.
    ....ok. My point was that the need to give freedom to all men (of all races) in this country was obvious, and the other side's argument was that they had the right to own slaves and it wasn't the government's place to decide what and who they could and couldn't own. The need to protect the right of a man to own a slave was nowhere near as important as the need to protect a man's right to be free and you can't have it both ways. Today, we are steadily losing our system of freely electing officials because of the efforts of men with enormous wealth. It is obvious that we need to protect our democracy. You can repeat yourself all you want. But, unless you believe that we can allow both individuals and corporations to donate as much as they want to individual candidates, parties and PACs, AND that this will not result in the loss of the free democratic election as we have always known it, then I don't know why you're even bothering to comment.
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    In your world you get to decide what's acceptable. Best thing for you is not to live in a capitalist country. Why do you insist on trying to change the US, when there are plenty of countries out there that like to dictate people lives that would satisfy you? I don't understand you people, you always want to fundamentally change this country. And it's never the government's fault either. It's always some big business.....big oil, big whatever....the 1%.
    Luckily, I'm as equally entitled to this country and its shaping as you are.

    I'm okay with progress.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Luckily, I'm as equally entitled to this country and its shaping as you are.

    I'm okay with progress.
    Trying to get rid of rich people in not progress.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #629
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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Trying to get rid of rich people in not progress.
    Limiting excessive influence is progress.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Kochs Plan to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    It depends on how those "individual voluntary contributions" are obtained. Until recent court rulings, union members had no say. To a degree, they don't know they have a right to chose now. Taxpayers in California have provided $100's of millions to the SEIU in the form of dues over the years through one program alone, In-Home-Support-Services. Would that be any different than one person like George Soros writing a check for $100 million to a super PAC?

    I don't think so.

    As I've written, I really don't know how one can fairly remove the spending on political agenda that is represented by elections. That marketing effort can take many forms beyond just an election cycle, such as what the very Progressive Annenberg Foundation does.

    How do you stop that? I believe you can't so why not go the opposite way, and let them all spend what they want. In the end, it's always only a percentage of a percentage of a percentage who vote anyway, so all that money is a giant stimulus plan that trickles back into the economy.
    It is not true that union members have no say in campaign donations. Unions are democratic organizations that represent 14.6 millions workers in America. Union members vote to elect their officers, can run for office and attend meetings.

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