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Thread: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E.

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    They were beaten badly and driven out of Iraq. If we went back in the same thing would happen to them.
    And when we left again, they'd just come back. The whole point of the "war on terror" was to chase them wherever they went until they were defeated. We have no interest in doing that.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which doesn't really help anyone outside of the ME. It wouldn't help the dead cartoonists at Charlie Hebdo, the victims of Muslim rape gangs in Sweden, etc. Extremist Islam exists outside of the Middle East, just walling it off and letting them kill each other isn't a solution.
    we have to start somewhere, why not where they come from?
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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    we have to start somewhere, why not where they come from?
    I'm not saying not to start there, we just have to understand that while we're off bombing the crap out of them in the ME, they're likely to be shooting out own citizens in our own backyard. We didn't keep them in the ME like we should have, now there will be many, many times more casualties than had we done it right in the first place.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    We did not lose Vietnam, we left..Never confuse the two.
    And further we had it won and chose to throw in the towel. It was years ago, I remember an interview with a high ranking North Vietnamese officer who said we had them beaten in the Tet offensive and had we persevered, the North Vietnamese were ready to throw in the towel. But it was all those televised images of American war protesters rioting in the streets, burning flags, and giving our government the figurative finger that encouraged the Viet Cong to keep on fighting. And sure enough they guessed right. We blinked first. And we caved. And not only did we cave, we sneaked out of Saigon in the middle of the night leaving some of our staunchest Vietnamese allies behind to be slaughtered when the Viet Cong moved in. It absolutely was not America's finest hour.

    Total estimated military and civilian deaths in the entire conflict are more than 3-1/2 million people. Total American deaths alone, more than 58,000, and the cost in the physically and mentally damaged people we managed to bring home is not possible to calculate.

    And Vietnam to this day remains a totalitarian 'communistic' country that assigns the rights and privileges that the people will have and has a really dismal track record in human rights that are worsening year by year according to international reports.

    So you tell me. Was the war worth it?
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 01-27-15 at 08:02 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    They impact our interests overseas. Oil. Our allies security. Our long term geopolitical allies in the region. Radical islam is a cancer and it needs to be treated like a highly invasive cancer-excised. Even the best drone program is ineffective without ground forces-thats what we are seeing in Iraq now.
    We have our own oil, our allies security is not out problem, if they want protection fine, in order to play they will pay, if not we leave.

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And further we had it won and chose to throw in the towel. It was years ago, I remember an interview with a high ranking North Vietnamese officer who said we had them beaten in the Tet offensive and had we persevered, the North Vietnamese were ready to throw in the towel. But it was all those televised images of American war protesters rioting in the streets, burning flags, and giving our government the figurative finger that encouraged the Viet Cong to keep on fighting. And sure enough they guessed right. We blinked first. And we caved. And not only did we cave, we sneaked out of Saigon in the middle of the night leaving some of our staunchest Vietnamese allies behind to be slaughtered when the Viet Cong moved in. It absolutely was not America's finest hour.

    Total estimated military and civilian deaths in the entire conflict are more than 3-1/2 million people. Total American deaths alone, more than 58,000, and the cost in the physically and mentally damaged people we managed to bring home is not possible to calculate.

    And Vietnam to this day remains a totalitarian 'communistic' country that assigns the rights and privileges that the people will have and has a really dismal track record in human rights that are worsening year by year according to international reports.

    So you tell me. Was the war worth it?
    Since we lost...Not a chance in hell..Should we have double down on bombing and not put in as many troops? Yes..Should we have not fought to begin with? Sure...

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    We have our own oil, our allies security is not out problem, if they want protection fine, in order to play they will pay, if not we leave.
    Should our allies participate more in their own security and not depend on the military might from just a few of us to keep them secure? Yes. But to say their security is not our problem isn't really accurate. Would we want a Nazi Europe today? That was the way it was headed if Hitler was not stopped. Would we want a 'communist' Europe today? That was the way it was headed if the USSR had not been stopped. Would we want a Pacific under the control of the Imperial Japanese army? That was the way it was headed if Japan had not been stopped. Would we want an entire Middle East under control of Saddam Hussein and therefore able to hold much of the free world hostage? That is the way it was headed if he had not been stopped.

    All these things are in America's interests as it is to our advantage to have allies instead of people intent on destroying or enslaving us. It is to our advantage to have free and prosperous trading partners who help us keep our economy strong. And from a purely aesthetic point of view, many of us enjoy traveling to and enjoying other places. Being an island unto ourselves and confined to our own space is not something I think desirable for anybody.

    But. . . sacrificing our blood and treasure and bombing or killing some people just so politicians can feel they are doing something when they have no plan to win a war and no clue what winning would look like, is not something I see as profitable or morally justifiable for us to do.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Should our allies participate more in their own security and not depend on the military might from just a few of us to keep them secure? Yes. But to say their security is not our problem isn't really accurate. Would we want a Nazi Europe today? That was the way it was headed if Hitler was not stopped. Would we want a 'communist' Europe today? That was the way it was headed if the USSR had not been stopped. Would we want a Pacific under the control of the Imperial Japanese army? That was the way it was headed if Japan had not been stopped. Would we want an entire Middle East under control of Saddam Hussein and therefore able to hold much of the free world hostage? That is the way it was headed if he had not been stopped.

    All these things are in America's interests as it is to our advantage to have allies instead of people intent on destroying or enslaving us. It is to our advantage to have free and prosperous trading partners who help us keep our economy strong. And from a purely aesthetic point of view, many of us enjoy traveling to and enjoying other places. Being an island unto ourselves and confined to our own space is not something I think desirable for anybody.

    But. . . sacrificing our blood and treasure and bombing or killing some people just so politicians can feel they are doing something when they have no plan to win a war and no clue what winning would look like, is not something I see as profitable or morally justifiable for us to do.
    You fight it, you pay for it...I am done helping the world only to be bent over and ****ed by it...

    Taking Euros for oil is not not holding the world hostage.

    And to be honest as much as a monster as he was, he was a predictable monster.

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    I think there are only two rational approaches. Either we should have no troops in the middle east at all or we should have enough with a mission to destroy ISIS within a few months. To me anything else, including what we are doing and throwing more troops at the problem without the will to destroy ISIS, is political and irrational.
    Why should we lead the fight against Isis ourselves or alone? I don't think US citizens should have to pay all the bills to save the world.

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    Re: On ‘Face the Nation,’ Senators Feinstein, McCain Call For More U.S. Troops In M.E

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Who else can take care of the problem? The Europeans don't have the heart nor the will. The Aussies can't do it alone with those in the ME.
    Americans don't like Isis, but committing our resources to a full fledged war against ISIS requires a better argument than "we hate those deranged assholes." We have to weigh the costs of war. We need a clear goal, and I want to know how it will benefit me and the United States?

    We don't need an endless war, and especially not an endless war against ISIS.

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