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Thread: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

  1. #81
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Cuba is beginning to dismantle its socialist system but it won't happen overnight. Cuban bureaucrats face the same problems Russian bureaucrats did when they dismantled the USSR, how to create a new Cuban bourgeoisie. It will be a long, patient degradation as private investment is allowed in and government assets are privatized, but it's pretty inevitable given how they have been running the country.
    Could you provide some credible links that describe this dismantling of it's socialist system? I agree, such radical changes will take time - lifetimes actually - but I know of no credible dismantling taking place and I'd want to believe that is true.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Read the OP. Even if he gets anything from the talks (he won't) he'll have to get it by congress (he won't).
    My point was it takes effort to enforce an embargo. Your response relates our internal political hardships of moving this forward. Not the constant monitoring of imports and exports from right off our shore.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  3. #83
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Cigars and really good sandwiches.
    But I can get that pretty much anywhere in the US. Dominican seed cigars are much better than much of the traditional cuban tobacco and hell.... the US lives on good and even great sammiches.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    But I can get that pretty much anywhere in the US. Dominican seed cigars are much better than much of the traditional cuban tobacco and hell.... the US lives on good and even great sammiches.
    And those fine wrappers that were used in Cuban cigars are found in CT. They are still produced here and go to many fine cigars around the world.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  5. #85
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    My point was it takes effort to enforce an embargo. Your response relates our internal political hardships of moving this forward. Not the constant monitoring of imports and exports from right off our shore.
    We'll never stop monitoring imports and exports right off our shore, embargo or no. It takes virtually no effort to maintain the embargo. What requires effort at this point is changing that. And absolutely no good reason to do so.

  6. #86
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post

    Opening trade with Cuba does nothing whatsoever for us.
    Not true.
    "The US Chamber of Commerce opposes the embargo, saying that it costs the United States $1.2 billion annually in lost sales of exports."
    https://www.uschamber.com/sites/defa...7tradecuba.pdf

    " If the embargo were lifted, the average American farmer would feel a difference in his or her life within two to three years"
    Jacksonville.com: Study says U.S. farmers losing from sanctions on Cuba 1/28/02

    Not in image, we just look weak.
    Nope. It makes us look like we are joining the rest of the world. Do I need to remind you on those 23 UN votes?

    Not economically either, they'll just need aid.
    Not true. See above.

    And imports? They have nothing we need. Tin maybe, we already have plenty of that.
    Also not true.
    "US exports to Cuba could reach $4.3 billion (3.5 billion euros) a year, compared to less than $360 million last year, according to analysts at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. Cuban merchandise imports to the US could go to $5.8 billion a year - a big improvement from today's zero."
    Businesses optimistic as US-Cuba relations thaw | Business | DW.DE | 18.12.2014


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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Oh good grief, stalk someone else.
    Your lies keep piling up. I've been in this thread long before you showed up. When you showed up and started making up stuff, as you've been caught doing before, I pointed it out. If you don't like it, say so. Don't try acting like you're some poor victim of debate politic's relatively high standards for backing up your claims. You weren't just wrong, you literally made up history.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    We'll never stop monitoring imports and exports right off our shore, embargo or no. It takes virtually no effort to maintain the embargo. What requires effort at this point is changing that. And absolutely no good reason to do so.
    Effort is required to maintain an embargo. It would be far easier to stop an embargo and let trade commence. You have done nothing to change my opinion on that. I will grant you that there is a political hurdle, but there is always a political hurdle.

    An estimated 6,000 jobs in the agricultural sector could be made if the embargo were lifted.
    http://www.afrocubaweb.com/news/cpfa...news/cpfag.htm

    We are currently supplying Cuba with food (we are there 2nd largest supplier, and from the link above you see we can be #1). We could be supplying them with energy and medical supplies. There is a huge market that we are not touching. And for what? We don't like communism?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    China has billions of customers and we really wanted into that market. We're talking about Cuba here and you still utterly fail in showing any sort of compelling reason to end their embargo.
    11 million people who've never had the perks of living in capitalism is a good enough reason to end the embargo. Hell, ask any business if they wouldn't enjoy 11 million untapped customers 90 miles from the US. 11 million workers who wouldn't mind working for half of an union member's salary if not less. Now, China's ~1.3 billion (not billions) customers weren't there in 1972. The country was an economic mess thanks to Mao's cultural revolution. More importantly, the PRC never gave up ideological control of the country and the Mainland is still very much ruled by it. As such, political reform has never been that important to establishing relations with a nation. That makes you wrong on how many arguments now?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    HAVANA - The start of talks on repairing 50 years of broken relations appears to have left President Raul Castro's government focused on winning additional concessions without giving in to U.S. demands for greater freedoms, despite the seeming benefits that warmer ties could have for the country's struggling economy. Following the highest-level open talks in three decades between the two nations, Cuban officials remained firm in rejecting significant reforms pushed by the United States as part of President Barack Obama's surprise move to re-establish ties and rebuild economic relations with the Communist-led country.

    "One can't think that in order to improve and normalize relations with the U.S., Cuba has to give up the principles it believes in," Cuba's top diplomat for U.S. affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press after the end of the talks. "Changes in Cuba aren't negotiable."



    cont...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leave...224809935.html
    The Canadian PressBy Michael Weissenstein And Anne-Marie Garcia, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press 6 hours ago

    I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
    owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
    owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
    few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.

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