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Thread: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

  1. #51
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    LOL Because that has worked so well for the last 50 yrs.
    How has it not worked? It works just fine for us and continues to. What's your great need to enable Cuba?

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    LOL Because that has worked so well for the last 50 yrs.
    The only thing that has changed is Castro might be dead now...other than that, it is the same.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I think we need relations with Cuba based on proximity to our borders alone. Not to mention our Cuban immigrants.
    Why? Btw, the so-called Cuban immigrants don't agree with ending the embargo either.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    The only thing that has changed is Castro might be dead now...other than that, it is the same.
    Again, so?

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Opening foreign relations with a country is not the same as telling them what govt to have or demand they give their people more freedom.

    We didnt do that with China. And we dont do it with Saudi Arabia.

    And the rest of your post is too silly to consider. It seems like we should invade....
    Why not?

    The policy for 9 presidents of both parties has been to keep cuba in the dark until the regime reforms.

    so not only does Obama end that policy, he rewards the Cubans for not reforming by handing over several Cuban spies complicit in the deaths of US citizens in international airspace by Cuban military authorities.

    (and not only that, we even allowed one of them to provide some sperm in advance of the announcement so his wifey could artificially inseminate herself) just maddening. and we get nothing in return. The Cubans are not driving 56 buicks because no one will sell them subarus, they don't have money to buy subarus because of their economic policy. they have open trade with every other country on the planet. we were doing just fine without them.

    so my proposal is to correct the stupid way this was done, by providing them a hardline choice, reform your way or ours, you have 15 days to decide, but either way reform will happen. and the president who threatens that must be serious.

    Saudi is a different story, it's home to the most violent religion on the planet , you invade Saudi and you declare war with a billion and a half people, and they lucked out and found 5 huge oil fields which makes them very powerful in that any political instability in Saudi crashes the world economy. you think the Saudi King and princes flying out to Bangkok every Saturday for drinks and hookers care about Sharia law? they don't but they have to maintain the façade to keep their own religious right in check. different scenario.

    China I think was a mistake to open trade with, but we didn't just open trade by giving them stuff, we got commerce in return. arguably benefitting both parties.

    what does cuba have that they can offer us? I don't there's any shortage of sugar and tobacco in Estados Unidos we wanted reform from them, right or wrong, that's what they can provide us, because they produce nothing else worth trading for.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 01-26-15 at 02:01 PM.
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Opening foreign relations with a country is not the same as telling them what govt to have or demand they give their people more freedom.

    We didnt do that with China. And we dont do it with Saudi Arabia.
    Because we didn't do it with those countries is not a reason to repeat the mistake. I don't have a problem with opening relations with Cuba. But I think we could have and should have made it contingent upon some concessions on rights and democracy in that country.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Why? Btw, the so-called Cuban immigrants don't agree with ending the embargo either.
    Are you questioning their status or origin with your statement?

    And why didn't you address our proximity to another nation as a reason to have relations?

    There are cubans who are pro and anti embargo.

    The real question to me is why continue an embargo on Cuba? I am going to assume any reason you give could be applied to another country that we do not have a current embargo on.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  8. #58
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Why not?

    The policy for 9 presidents of both parties has been to keep cuba in the dark until the regime reforms.

    so not only does Obama end that policy, he rewards the Cubans for not reforming by handing over several Cuban spies complicit in the deaths of US citizens in international airspace by Cuban military authorities.

    (and not only that, we even allowed one of them to provide some sperm in advance of the announcement so his wifey could artificially inseminate herself) just maddening. and we get nothing in return. The Cubans are not driving 56 buicks because no one will sell them subarus, they don't have money to buy subarus because of their economic policy. they have open trade with every other country on the planet. we were doing just fine without them.

    so my proposal is to correct the stupid way this was done, by providing them a hardline choice, reform your way or ours, you have 15 days to decide, but either way reform will happen. and the president who threatens that must be serious.

    Saudi is a different story, it's home to the most violent religion on the planet , you invade Saudi and you declare war with a billion and a half people, and they lucked out and found 5 huge oil fields which makes them very powerful in that any political instability in Saudi crashes the world economy. you think the Saudi King and princes flying out to Bangkok every Saturday for drinks and hookers care about Sharia law? they don't but they have to maintain the façade to keep their own religious right in check. different scenario.

    China I think was a mistake to open trade with, but we didn't just open trade by giving them stuff, we got commerce in return. arguably benefitting both parties.

    what does cuba have that they can offer us? I don't there's any shortage of sugar and tobacco in Estados Unidos we wanted reform from them, right or wrong, that's what they can provide us, because they produce nothing else worth trading for.
    So it's not about right or wrong, just what's convenient? And screw them if they dont have anything to offer us? Fine...then lift the artificial, useless restrictions that make us look even more weak (since they didnt work) and hypocritical.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    How has it not worked? It works just fine for us and continues to. What's your great need to enable Cuba?
    For one thng, it's hypocritical and useless to do so.

    And second, we look weak because we've been trying to 'use' our might thru isolation for decades and failed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #60
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Are you questioning their status or origin with your statement?

    And why didn't you address our proximity to another nation as a reason to have relations?

    There are cubans who are pro and anti embargo.

    The real question to me is why continue an embargo on Cuba? I am going to assume any reason you give could be applied to another country that we do not have a current embargo on.
    There is absolutely no reason for us to even take the time to discuss with Cuba the lowering of the embargo. The embargo exists and is the fact of the day right now. It takes virtually zero effort on our part to continue with it. So the question remains, why go to any effort to end it? Has anything changed on Cuba that would make it a good neighbor? No. And they have nothing else other than being a good neighbor that we need or want.

    And yes, I've long questioned the Wet Foot/Dry Foot policy.

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