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Thread: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

  1. #151
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The thing is all the Cuban families who owned the plantations fled to the Dominican Republic with their best workers. So really the Dominican cigars are what the Cubans were. I may have had a cigar from a certain country you mentioned in a nonspecific country to our north.

    It was ok but not stellar
    I have to admit, my ex girlfriend and her family were Cuban, so Ive had plenty. Also had em when visiting mexico. They are ok, nothing great compared to some of the stuff out there now. For a while I even had a humidor.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Of course they are leaving the talks..are people really that naive?

    Why on Earth would the Communist government want full and open relations with America when the embargo has kept them in power for so long? The same goes for North Korea, btw...even more so.

    They will NEVER agree to open relations until their people are literally threatening to boot them out if they don't.

    What Obama should have done was just end the embargo and declare relations with Cuba as normal. No negotiations..just state it and watch the Cuban government collapse after a few months.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Of course they are leaving the talks..are people really that naive?

    Why on Earth would the Communist government want full and open relations with America when the embargo has kept them in power for so long? The same goes for North Korea, btw...even more so.

    They will NEVER agree to open relations until their people are literally threatening to boot them out if they don't.

    What Obama should have done was just end the embargo and declare relations with Cuba as normal. No negotiations..just state it and watch the Cuban government collapse after a few months.
    Wow.

  4. #154
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Lolz that was funny.

    Cuba owes us the same treatment that we gave the American Indian. We raped, pillaged,
    burned and conquered and then allowed the original governing group, the American Indian
    small plots of land for themselves. Cuba kicked the USA out and allowed them a small plot
    to lease at Guantanamo. Fair is fair. The Cubans have treated us as well as we treated the
    defeated Indians. So why would the Cubans owe the USA anything? The precedent established
    by the USA treatment of the American Indian gives absolute legal high ground to the Cubans.
    Tit for Tat, don't ya' know?

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Cuba owes us the same treatment that we gave the American Indian. We raped, pillaged,
    burned and conquered and then allowed the original governing group, the American Indian
    small plots of land for themselves. Cuba kicked the USA out and allowed them a small plot
    to lease at Guantanamo. Fair is fair. The Cubans have treated us as well as we treated the
    defeated Indians. So why would the Cubans owe the USA anything? The precedent established
    by the USA treatment of the American Indian gives absolute legal high ground to the Cubans.
    Tit for Tat, don't ya' know?
    Sorry I dont go for your bizarre delusions or sense of social justice.

  6. #156
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Obama gave away the only power the embargo had. The embargo was never meant to improve the status of the Cuban people. It was intended to oppose totalitarianism by the Castro regime and keep pressure on Russia make Cuba a financial burden on them. I personally favor improved relations with Cuba but only if the Cuban government agrees to changes in it's governance which will make it a freer, economically stable and less authoritarian.

    The way to do that is to negotiate changes within their country with the way they treat their people. If your first act is to give away all your chips, and you no longer have anything to negotiate with, well, where I come from, that's called just plain stupid.

    Obama announced this as a grand foreign policy victory. All it did is embolden the Castro regime and give them the upper hand in negotiations moving forward. It's a foreign policy failure.
    You can't negotiate with people you aren't talking to. You're also not going to get everything all at once. The embargo is a pretty childish when you think about it "You give us what we want, or we're not talking to you." It's like we're being petulant teenagers.

    You start the conversation, you start the negotations, you allow our money and culture to start flowing in. Eventually the people will demand the freedoms and opportunities that increased trade brings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #157
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The average cuban will see none of that money-just like they have not until now from whatever income the nation gets.

    The difference is now the corrupt leadership has more money. Thats what Obama is doing.
    So the way to help the people is to cut off trade? How does it help them? Your cartoon asked the question of who is helping the citizens. So who is helping them?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's an interesting document outlining the provisions for foreign capital, investments, etc... but not ownership. It shows that Cuba is open to outside country investments in Cuba but that isn't indicative of any type of movement away from their current form of government or politics. Was there a section specifically that you thought embodied a governmental shift away from socialism?
    The new law allows private investment in nearly all sectors of the Cuban economy and allows for investment in equity and debt of investments that don't fit the strict definition of foreign direct investment. It also for the first time allows 100% foreign ownership ("totally foreign capital companies") and reduces taxes enormously. The bill fundamentally changes the landscape of foreign/domestic private investment in Cuba.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    You can't negotiate with people you aren't talking to. You're also not going to get everything all at once. The embargo is a pretty childish when you think about it "You give us what we want, or we're not talking to you." It's like we're being petulant teenagers.

    You start the conversation, you start the negotations, you allow our money and culture to start flowing in. Eventually the people will demand the freedoms and opportunities that increased trade brings.
    Exactly right. Talk to them but don't give up your leverage prior to the discussion. Any fool knows that. The way the administration did it, Cuba got a lot for very little. They released a few political prisoners and sent an American they had held in captivity home and in turn got trade concessions worth billions. It's almost as bad as trading five of the worlds most dangerous terrorists for a deserter.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The new law allows private investment in nearly all sectors of the Cuban economy and allows for investment in equity and debt of investments that don't fit the strict definition of foreign direct investment. It also for the first time allows 100% foreign ownership ("totally foreign capital companies") and reduces taxes enormously. The bill fundamentally changes the landscape of foreign/domestic private investment in Cuba.
    I didn't see anything about ownership actually - what section describes 100% ownership?

    And I'll grant you that yes, it's very interesting that Cuba is allowing investments but that doesn't tell me they are moving away from Socialism or doing anything about their horrible human rights issues. It does tell me that they may be very desperate financially. Again... please show me what section of the document stated full ownership by foreigners... I may have missed it.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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