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Thread: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

  1. #111
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    HAVANA - The start of talks on repairing 50 years of broken relations appears to have left President Raul Castro's government focused on winning additional concessions without giving in to U.S. demands for greater freedoms, despite the seeming benefits that warmer ties could have for the country's struggling economy. Following the highest-level open talks in three decades between the two nations, Cuban officials remained firm in rejecting significant reforms pushed by the United States as part of President Barack Obama's surprise move to re-establish ties and rebuild economic relations with the Communist-led country.

    "One can't think that in order to improve and normalize relations with the U.S., Cuba has to give up the principles it believes in," Cuba's top diplomat for U.S. affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press after the end of the talks. "Changes in Cuba aren't negotiable."



    cont...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leave...224809935.html
    The Canadian PressBy Michael Weissenstein And Anne-Marie Garcia, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press – 6 hours ago
    Well, so much for changing Cuba's governing from the 'inside'. Should be noted that for the last 40 some years or more, many western countries have been trading and tourism visited, and it's not made any difference. Rather arrogant to think that the US would have any more luck using this approach than all the other countries that have been actively engaged.

    Of course, it's really early, but I can easily envision a still Socialist Cuba some 50 years from now.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  2. #112
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You obviously don't understand how franchises work or for that matter how US entrepreneurs could improve the lives of Cubans by setting up business ventures in a country where the average person makes $15-$25 a month. Again, this is REALLY above your knowledge of how these things work.



    Lmao, utter nonsense. Cuban employees working in Spanish hotels are some of the best paid workers in Cuba. People would rather work for foreign run companies than state controlled companies because of the opportunities which are open to them. Again, this is something you would know if your ignorance of the country wasn't so profoundly obvious.
    I know precisely how franchises work, who benefits and how. You however, so obviously do not. Don't care if we can "improve the lives of Cubans", thought I've made that clear in both threads on the subject. And you don't seem to get that the Cuban government as it is gets paid from all you've suggested. Opening trade and relations allows the Cuban government to prosper doing just what they are doing.

  3. #113
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Not so fast, Cuba also owes American/Cuban citizens for the appropriation of private American businesses during the revolution. This issue is a little bit more complicated than "we owe them" and "evil communists" rhetoric. Mistakes were made by both sides and both sides need to figure out a solution to these issues the affected people on both sides of the waters.


    you mean the mafia don't you?

    And of course, US sugar...who might wan to also consider paying back wages for the abuse they caused...
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

  4. #114
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
    owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
    owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
    few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
    Seriously? Always giving away other's money.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  5. #115
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Mischaracterizations? Are these not your words? "Cuba does not have a sizeable market we were trying to break into." - "We weren't embargoing China." - "We weren't embargoing China. We are with Cuba. Continue that until the government changes. "? There was nothing mischaracterized. Those are your words.
    So, realizing your arguments and insults hang upon mischaracterization you double down.

  6. #116
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Admit it. You just thought of that and thought it sounded clever because "Obama, Obama, Obama!"


    One question: How has the embargo improved the status of the Cuban people? Has it made them free?
    Obama gave away the only power the embargo had. The embargo was never meant to improve the status of the Cuban people. It was intended to oppose totalitarianism by the Castro regime and keep pressure on Russia make Cuba a financial burden on them. I personally favor improved relations with Cuba but only if the Cuban government agrees to changes in it's governance which will make it a freer, economically stable and less authoritarian.

    The way to do that is to negotiate changes within their country with the way they treat their people. If your first act is to give away all your chips, and you no longer have anything to negotiate with, well, where I come from, that's called just plain stupid.

    Obama announced this as a grand foreign policy victory. All it did is embolden the Castro regime and give them the upper hand in negotiations moving forward. It's a foreign policy failure.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Why not demand a few concessions? Why not get something out of it, like basic human rights for the Cuban people? That we haven't pushed oppressive governments in the past is no reason to continue it.
    There have been concessions by the Cuban government, the first of which was for Cuba to release political dissidents, Cuba has started releasing them in accordance with the Helms-Burton Act of '94. The second has been a lifting of bans of small private enterprise in Cuba and home ownership rights have been restored slowly.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    So, realizing your arguments and insults hang upon mischaracterization you double down.
    Trying to win an argument by not actually addressing your silly claims? Par for the course. Tell us again about how we didn't have an embargo on China.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    you mean the mafia don't you?

    And of course, US sugar...who might wan to also consider paying back wages for the abuse they caused...
    Those weren't the only businesses. Cuba's middle class and upper middle class also fled the country a few months/years after the revolution. There are entire neighborhoods in Centro Habana where people will talk to you about who use to own the houses. Many were owned by working class/middle class people who left in the early 1960s because the situation in the country simply wouldn't have benefited them.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #120
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The agricultural market argument is rank bull****. Predicated upon the specious presumption that farmers have an overproduction of goods. Are those farmers going to start producing more to meet the demand? Will more agricultural land magically appear? Is there agricultural land going fallow now, waiting for a greater market?

    Of course the Chamber wants it, they also are just fine with open borders.
    The agricultural market is also subsidized to not produce in order to control prices. THAT is money out of our pockets. So opening new markets in Cuba will rectify that.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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