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Thread: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

  1. #101
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    In light of evidence and links, your reply is nah uh???
    It really takes some intellectual dishonesty to call other people's arguments bull**** after his very first defense turned out to be a completely fabricated account of events. I mean, this is a person who didn't know that China had been embargoed for 21 years before the US normalized relations. This is a person who doesn't understand that 11 million new customers would be a good economic incentive to normalize relations. This is a person who believe that the embargo shouldn't be lifted until the regime is gone and believes that others are wrong in calling out hypocrisy because oppressive governments have never really been an issue for the US. When you're dealing with a person that devoid of any knowledge on the country they're discussing, it's just easier to watch the events as they unfold and ignore the silly relics of the Cold War.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #102
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    How many people there are are is entirely irrelevant to the question. You keep implying there isn't a large enough market for us to bother. You're obviously not a businessman as that is not only absurd, it's absolutely devoid of any truth. The first people to immediately benefit from Cuba opening up to capitalism would be the small business owners in states near Cuba. They'd have access to 11 million brand new customers ripe for picking. That is 11 million new customers who will buy US cellphone companies, food companies, fast food, clothing etc. If you think that is not a "compelling reason", you've obviously never run a business of your own.
    Nonsense as usual. What, they're going to nip across and buy a cheeseburger? Ridiculous. Yes, McDonalds will be able to franchise there. but who benefits? McDonalds and the Cuban government. There is a zero incentive for them to change and very little of the profits will be held (and taxed) here. Of course the Chamber is all onboard for that.

  3. #103
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    HAVANA - The start of talks on repairing 50 years of broken relations appears to have left President Raul Castro's government focused on winning additional concessions without giving in to U.S. demands for greater freedoms, despite the seeming benefits that warmer ties could have for the country's struggling economy. Following the highest-level open talks in three decades between the two nations, Cuban officials remained firm in rejecting significant reforms pushed by the United States as part of President Barack Obama's surprise move to re-establish ties and rebuild economic relations with the Communist-led country.

    "One can't think that in order to improve and normalize relations with the U.S., Cuba has to give up the principles it believes in," Cuba's top diplomat for U.S. affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press after the end of the talks. "Changes in Cuba aren't negotiable."



    cont...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leave...224809935.html
    The Canadian PressBy Michael Weissenstein And Anne-Marie Garcia, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press 6 hours ago


    I would humbly suggest the best, non biased reporting on this will come from the Canadian Press, an independent co-operative, and the CBC. Both have been following the talks closely. There has been a suggestion that the US sand bagged Cuba, in that the decision to talk held in Canada did not involve "social changes", now being characterized as "freedoms" by the US.

    The Obama administration has dedicated significant political capital to rapprochement, but closer ties with the economic giant to the north also could have major importance for Cuba, which saw growth slow sharply in 2014 and is watching with concern as falling oil prices slam Venezuela, which has been a vital source of economic support.
    Cuba has grown despite sanctions by the US, declared illegal by the UN for nearly 50 years. Obama needs the political capital now. Thus Cuba has the advantage, a they can last longer than he can.

    The later part of the quote is a red herring, financial commitments from Cuba's supporters are delegated well into the future and Cuba can and will withstand an economic downturn more easily than the US.

    I would say we are seeing the rookie Obama again.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

  4. #104
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    In light of evidence and links, your reply is nah uh???
    I read DemSocialist's links, yours came up as 404. And in reply to the links I read, which are supposedly unbiased think tanks, yes, I call bull****.

  5. #105
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Nonsense as usual. What, they're going to nip across and buy a cheeseburger?
    You obviously don't understand how franchises work or for that matter how US entrepreneurs could improve the lives of Cubans by setting up business ventures in a country where the average person makes $15-$25 a month. Again, this is REALLY above your knowledge of how these things work.

    Ridiculous. Yes, McDonalds will be able to franchise there. but who benefits? McDonalds and the Cuban government.
    Lmao, utter nonsense. Cuban employees working in Spanish hotels are some of the best paid workers in Cuba. People would rather work for foreign run companies than state controlled companies because of the opportunities which are open to them. Again, this is something you would know if your ignorance of the country wasn't so profoundly obvious.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #106
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It really takes some intellectual dishonesty to call other people's arguments bull**** after his very first defense turned out to be a completely fabricated account of events. I mean, this is a person who didn't know that China had been embargoed for 21 years before the US normalized relations. This is a person who doesn't understand that 11 million new customers would be a good economic incentive to normalize relations. This is a person who believe that the embargo shouldn't be lifted until the regime is gone and believes that others are wrong in calling out hypocrisy because oppressive governments have never really been an issue for the US. When you're dealing with a person that devoid of any knowledge on the country they're discussing, it's just easier to watch the events as they unfold and ignore the silly relics of the Cold War.
    Nice laundry list of mischaracterizations there Hautey. What were you saying again about intellectual dishonesty?

  7. #107
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It really takes some intellectual dishonesty to call other people's arguments bull**** after his very first defense turned out to be a completely fabricated account of events. I mean, this is a person who didn't know that China had been embargoed for 21 years before the US normalized relations. This is a person who doesn't understand that 11 million new customers would be a good economic incentive to normalize relations. This is a person who believe that the embargo shouldn't be lifted until the regime is gone and believes that others are wrong in calling out hypocrisy because oppressive governments have never really been an issue for the US. When you're dealing with a person that devoid of any knowledge on the country they're discussing, it's just easier to watch the events as they unfold and ignore the silly relics of the Cold War.
    Why not demand a few concessions? I think the embargo is pointless, but it exists and lifting it will be of enormous benefit to Cuba. Why not get something out of it, like basic human rights for the Cuban people? That we haven't pushed oppressive governments in the past is no reason to continue it.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    My point was it takes effort to enforce an embargo. Your response relates our internal political hardships of moving this forward. Not the constant monitoring of imports and exports from right off our shore.


    Ahem...


    It isn't being enforced now...

    You have Cuba cigars in the US, Cuban rum....

    a whole industry exists in Canada selling Cuba cigars to Americans...
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
    owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
    owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
    few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
    How about rent on Gitmo?
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

  10. #110
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Nice laundry list of mischaracterizations there Hautey. What were you saying again about intellectual dishonesty?
    Mischaracterizations? Are these not your words? "Cuba does not have a sizeable market we were trying to break into." - "We weren't embargoing China." - "We weren't embargoing China. We are with Cuba. Continue that until the government changes. "? There was nothing mischaracterized. Those are your words.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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