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Thread: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

  1. #91
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
    owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
    owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
    few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
    Not so fast, Cuba also owes American/Cuban citizens for the appropriation of private American businesses during the revolution. This issue is a little bit more complicated than "we owe them" and "evil communists" rhetoric. Mistakes were made by both sides and both sides need to figure out a solution to these issues the affected people on both sides of the waters.
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    HAVANA - The start of talks on repairing 50 years of broken relations appears to have left President Raul Castro's government focused on winning additional concessions without giving in to U.S. demands for greater freedoms, despite the seeming benefits that warmer ties could have for the country's struggling economy. Following the highest-level open talks in three decades between the two nations, Cuban officials remained firm in rejecting significant reforms pushed by the United States as part of President Barack Obama's surprise move to re-establish ties and rebuild economic relations with the Communist-led country.

    "One can't think that in order to improve and normalize relations with the U.S., Cuba has to give up the principles it believes in," Cuba's top diplomat for U.S. affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press after the end of the talks. "Changes in Cuba aren't negotiable."



    cont...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leave...224809935.html
    The Canadian PressBy Michael Weissenstein And Anne-Marie Garcia, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press 6 hours ago
    That's what happens when you don't understand the use of smart power in international relations. Obama opened up by bending over and letting Castro have fun with his ass and now Obama is trying to reclaim his virginity. That's not the way international relations works.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  3. #93
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
    owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
    owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
    few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
    Well, they could start by cashing our checks.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  4. #94
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    11 million people who've never had the perks of living in capitalism is a good enough reason to end the embargo. Hell, ask any business if they wouldn't enjoy 11 million untapped customers 90 miles from the US. 11 million workers who wouldn't mind working for half of an union member's salary if not less. Now, China's ~1.3 billion (not billions) customers weren't there in 1972. The country was an economic mess thanks to Mao's cultural revolution. More importantly, the PRC never gave up ideological control of the country and the Mainland is still very much ruled by it. As such, political reform has never been that important to establishing relations with a nation. That makes you wrong on how many arguments now?
    Oh yeah, China's population in 72 was ONLY 892 million. And we all knew where that trend was going, they weren't going to get smaller. A market largely untapped by the West.

    And no, 11 million on an island with resources we don't need is NOT a good enough reason to end the embargo.

    And where did I say political reform was that important in general to establishing relations? IN THIS CASE, it's the only thing they can offer that would make it worth our trouble.

    I know, you're invested emotionally in China and your image of it. Fine, let's not talk of China anymore, it drives you nuts apparently. Since this thread is about Cuba, let's talk about Cuba.
    Last edited by clownboy; 01-26-15 at 03:14 PM.

  5. #95
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
    owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
    owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
    few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
    No thanks to all of that.

  6. #96
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    What do you mean of course it will fix their situation? When Cuba gets more money (through its state owned business) who gets the money-the govt or the people? Plenty of western nations do business there now and its a crap hole. How would more money change that?

    The only thing it does it allow the leadership to improve its security. Let me guess, you thought the "fair and equitable" commies were going to hand it out to the people of Cuba?

    All communism does is make everyone equally poor and miserable (excepting the elites). And Obama is helping to do exactly that.
    Your cartoon makes an interesting point, however I fail to see how continuing along the same path helps the average Cuban either. It would seem that they'd be better off getting American money. Opening opens up markets too, meaning more money flowing into Cuba and potentially to the average Cuban. The embargo sure hasn't made them free, has it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.

  7. #97
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Not true.
    "The US Chamber of Commerce opposes the embargo, saying that it costs the United States $1.2 billion annually in lost sales of exports."
    https://www.uschamber.com/sites/defa...7tradecuba.pdf

    " If the embargo were lifted, the average American farmer would feel a difference in his or her life within two to three years"
    Jacksonville.com: Study says U.S. farmers losing from sanctions on Cuba 1/28/02


    Nope. It makes us look like we are joining the rest of the world. Do I need to remind you on those 23 UN votes?


    Not true. See above.


    Also not true.
    "US exports to Cuba could reach $4.3 billion (3.5 billion euros) a year, compared to less than $360 million last year, according to analysts at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. Cuban merchandise imports to the US could go to $5.8 billion a year - a big improvement from today's zero."
    Businesses optimistic as US-Cuba relations thaw | Business | DW.DE | 18.12.2014
    The agricultural market argument is rank bull****. Predicated upon the specious presumption that farmers have an overproduction of goods. Are those farmers going to start producing more to meet the demand? Will more agricultural land magically appear? Is there agricultural land going fallow now, waiting for a greater market?

    Of course the Chamber wants it, they also are just fine with open borders.

  8. #98
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Oh yeah, China's population in 72 was ONLY 892 million. And we all knew where that trend was going, they weren't going to get smaller. A market largely untapped by the West.
    How many people there are are is entirely irrelevant to the question. You keep implying there isn't a large enough market for us to bother. You're obviously not a businessman as that is not only absurd, it's absolutely devoid of any truth. The first people to immediately benefit from Cuba opening up to capitalism would be the small business owners in states near Cuba. They'd have access to 11 million brand new customers ripe for picking. That is 11 million new customers who will buy from US cellphone companies, furniture companies, fast food, clothing etc. If you think that is not a "compelling reason", you've obviously never run a business of your own.

    I know, you're investing emotionally in China and your image of it. Fine, let's not talk of China anymore, it drives you nuts apparently. Since this thread is about Cuba, let's talk about Cuba.
    Lol, you got caught making stuff up in your first 10 posts in this thread. Get serious.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-26-15 at 03:18 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

  9. #99
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    That's what happens when you don't understand the use of smart power in international relations. Obama opened up by bending over and letting Castro have fun with his ass and now Obama is trying to reclaim his virginity. That's not the way international relations works.
    Admit it. You just thought of that and thought it sounded clever because "Obama, Obama, Obama!"


    One question: How has the embargo improved the status of the Cuban people? Has it made them free?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.

  10. #100
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    Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The agricultural market argument is rank bull****. Predicated upon the specious presumption that farmers have an overproduction of goods. Are those farmers going to start producing more to meet the demand? Will more agricultural land magically appear? Is there agricultural land going fallow now, waiting for a greater market?

    Of course the Chamber wants it, they also are just fine with open borders.
    In light of evidence and links, your reply is nah uh???
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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