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Thread: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    My, look at what the reasonable people are doing:



    Yeah. They seem like nice folks. We can probably trust these guys.
    no way does the mossad undertake assassinations on foreign lands in israel's self interest
    wait, that's ok because it's israel
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yes, because all other nations with nuclear capability developed that in full view of the international community
    Precisely. So if our goal is to prevent Iran from developing nuclear capability, then gosh, maybe we should, oh, I dunno, incorporate that.


    because it should be
    what iranian citizen should feel comfortable knowing that a nuclear armed israel, a nation that cannot be found temperate in its use of force, could decimate their nation while being without nuclear parity
    if you want to argue that Iran should have nuclear weapons, that's a separate issue. However, recognizing that it is rational of Iran to highly prioritize a very popular program doesn't exactly do much for your argument that we can instead trust Iranian politicians when they pretty-promise that they won't, especially after they have already been caught lying about it.

    reasonable government policy or do you believe that your own government should discontinue ensuring the safety of yourself and your family. if you do not believe such termination of a strong defensive posture is wise, then why should it be found so for the iranian citizens
    Again, you are only weakening your earlier argument here.

    let's see, iran's major opposition in the region is a nuclear power
    That is incorrect. Iran's major opposition in the region is not a nuclear power, but intends to become so if Iran does. Hooray, now the sunni-shia fight is nuclear! There's no possible way that goes badly!

    yet you find iran the one seeking to assert hegemony. i can only conclude you do not fully understand the meaning of that term
    On the contrary - I state that they seek regional hegemony and I am pretty comfortably within the vast mainstream of analysts of Iranian intentions when I say that. Having nuclear weaponry would be invaluable in forcing their will upon regional states. Oh, you don't like that we've just flipped the government of Bahrain? Feel free to go to war with us over it - oh, but you can't, we've got a nuke. It allows them to pursue the same kind of regional aggression that they are already engaging in, but effectively without check.

    as opposed to developing nuclear weapons out in the open. like what other nation?
    Again, you are only weakening your earlier argument that we can trust the Iranians to cease development, or that we can trust that our current knowledge of their development is accurate.

    let's review which nations have nuclear capacity and which ones are inclined to initiate warfare. and when looking at israel and iran the results are compelling. iran ... has not initiated warfare with another state in over a century
    yeah. Because Iran has never even heard of Hezbollah, or the Qods-Force, or Moqtada al-Sadr.

    Iran is the largest state supporter of terrorism in the world. It's not cpwill saying it, it's the Obama' Administrations' own State Department saying it.

    Iran has no nuclear capability
    Yeah. that's what we're trying to keep.

    no, it's like the israelis can now kick their ass with nuclear weapons so iran better arm itself in kind in self defense
    Again, you are only weakening your original claims. If you wish to abandon them, that's fine.

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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no way does the mossad undertake assassinations on foreign lands in israel's self interest
    wait, that's ok because it's israel
    Strawman much?

    But hey, if you can show me Israel telling it's proxies to murder Rouhani's (or a similar figure)' children as part of a negotiating tactic, I'd be interested to see that.

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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Strawman much?

    But hey, if you can show me Israel telling it's proxies to murder Rouhani's (or a similar figure)' children as part of a negotiating tactic, I'd be interested to see that.
    notice you are not denying that israel's mossad engages in the same form of political assassinations

    but resent that iran dares do the same
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure. Because it's not like they have a long history of being deliberately deceptive about their nuclear program.
    Deceptive? That fits the bill of six of the nine current nuclear capable states; and a few of the former nuclear capable states (e.g. South Africa).

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    as opposed to developing nuclear weapons out in the open. like what other nation?
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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so far the iranians have given up their development of a nuclear weapon while participating in these negotiations
    that should tell a reasonable person that these talks are genuine
    Yeah, believe that...

    Obama Straight Up Lied about Iran's Nukes Tonight: Their Progress Hasn't Been 'Halted' | National Review Online
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    A question on this OP
    Has this occurred previously?
    I see this as a dumb ass blatant political power play that will blow back in both their faces.

    Boehner

    First, the politics. Why on earth would anyone think it was a good idea to arrange for Netanyahu to speak to a joint session of Congress without telling Obama or anyone in his administration about the invitation?

    Yes, Congress has an important role to play in international affairs. And yes, the days are long gone when disputes among officials over foreign policy ended at the water’s edge; members of Congress routinely gallivant around the globe and share their freelance views of what the United States should or should not be doing. But inviting a foreign leader to speak at the Capitol without even informing the president, let alone consulting him, is a bald-faced usurpation for which there is no recent precedent.
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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obama is the first president since Carter that mistakenly believes that the Iranians are interested in negotiations. At least Carter can honestly say he didn't know any better.
    You are correct in one sense - that since the Carter Era no U.S. president has tried to work with the Iranian government on curbing hostilities nor smoothing over anti-American rhetoric. In fact, other than President Obama only Clinton and GWB have strengthen sanctions against Iran or even attempted to do so. But one thing you neocons tend to forget is this: Prior to 1979, Iran was America's strongest ally in the Middle-East. And just as Reagan had to wait for a more moderate leader to come along in the USSR before he could work with Russia, America (Obama) had to wait for a more moderate Iranian leader before negotiations could begin to take shape in Iran.

    Reagan got lucky he ended up with Gorbachev; it only took 3 successive Soviet leaders to die before he got someone who was reasonable to deal with. Of course, the neocons will say it was Reagan's toughness that won the day, but world historians tell a completely different story. Regardless, until Reagan no U.S. president was able reach negotiations with Russia on anything short of spy exchanges or nuclear weapons withdraw from Cuba. Until Reagan/Gorbachev, America could do nothing to halt the Communist threat that came out of Russia. I imagine Obama or his successor will have to find his "Gorbachev" in Iran before any real headway is made between these two nations.

    Back to those Iran sanctions, you can get a glimpse of how effective they've been and which U.S. presidential Administration led the charge from the following articles here (Iran Economy | Economy Watch) and here (Middle East Brief - Brandeis Univ, Oct 2008).
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-02-15 at 03:58 PM.
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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    President Executive Order is whining about the House taking unilateral action? No hypocrisy there!

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    Re: Netanyahu ‘spat in our face,’ White House officials said to say[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw View Post
    President Executive Order is whining about the House taking unilateral action? No hypocrisy there!
    You'd win this argument if:

    a) No U.S. president other than Pres. Obama had ever used an Executive Order to get what he wanted; or,

    b) Pres. Obama had issued more EO's than any other President in U.S. history. That record is held by FDR w/3,721 EOs.

    Just as an FYI (because this issue has already been addressed in this thread a number of times)...

    Top 5 U.S. Presidents by number of EO issues:

    FDR - 3,721
    Woodrow Wilson - 1,803
    Coolidge - 1,203
    Teddy Roosevelt - 1,081
    Hoover - 968
    Truman - 907

    Top 5 from last 11 U.S. Presidents (Ike - Obama):

    Ike - 484
    Reagan - 381
    Clinton - 364
    Nixon - 346
    LBJ - 325

    Last 5 U.S. Presidents:

    Reagan - 381
    Clinton - 364
    GWB - 291
    Obama - 200
    GHB - 166

    For a complete list (updated since 01/20/2015), click here (U.S. President Executive Order count).
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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