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House GOP drops controversial abortion bill ahead of Roe v. Wade anniversary

j-mac said:
So, just say it out loud...you consider abortion a matter of convenience....
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We are two males arguing over a woman's right to choose. There's something ironic about that.

Oh, so now its a matter of past transgressions eh? How in the world do you put the two even in the same thread, unless you have seething contempt for this nation.
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either immigrants are good, in which case we should stop with the anti-Latino racism, or immigrants are bad, in which case whites should go back to Europe.
 
Lursa said:
So the kid is just punishment for having sex then?
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No, the child is what will occur from the act...If you don't know that then there is another failure of our public ed system.

OK, I may not place as much value on the unborn but I certainly value kids.
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"may not"? Now there is a colossal understatement. And just how do you think you value kids? Is that if they manage to be lucky enough not to be murdered in the womb?

So you might look in the mirror regarding that 'disgusting' comment.
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Nah, I value life....I don't throw it away because I got drunk, and messed up.....

And you couldnt even answer my question honestly..."Do you teach your own kids that those things in life are just 'conveniences?' Or are they important responsibilities in life that determine the direction and quality of their lives? "
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All of those things are of course important, and included with that is that they wait to have children until they are ready, and if they don't accomplish these things first, they aren't ready are they?

It's probably too much to ask why you think you have the right to judge a woman and decide the unborn is more entitled to all those things than her.
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It's probably too much to ask you why you think it is perfectly fine to snuff out a defenseless life because you ordered too many tequila shots one night, and decided that you'd have sex anyway before you were done putting your own life together...Why are you more entitled to life than that of a child?
 
Phys251 said:
There's something ironic about that.
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What is ironic, and tone-deaf, is your signature, given who and what you are supporting.

They obviously don't matter that much to you.
 
Phys251 said:
We are two males arguing over a woman's right to choose. There's something ironic about that.
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Not that I think one must be the same sex as someone whose right one wishes to defend; but if there was any validity to that, then surely it matters that approximately half of the innocent victims of abortion are male. So even if you deny that a man may care about the lives of all the precious girls who are tragically slaughtered in this savage manner, that still leaves us with a valid concern for the lives of all the boys who fall to the same fate.
 
j-mac said:
No, the child is what will occur from the act...If you don't know that then there is another failure of our public ed system.

"may not"? Now there is a colossal understatement. And just how do you think you value kids? Is that if they manage to be lucky enough not to be murdered in the womb


Nah, I value life....I don't throw it away because I got drunk, and messed up.....

All of those things are of course important, and included with that is that they wait to have children until they are ready, and if they don't accomplish these things first, they aren't ready are they?

It's probably too much to ask you why you think it is perfectly fine to snuff out a defenseless life because you ordered too many tequila shots one night, and decided that you'd have sex anyway before you were done putting your own life together...Why are you more entitled to life than that of a child?
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You dont value 'life.' You value life selectively. So do I but at least I admit it. You do not value women's lives. It's plain as day^^^^.

You post is full of ignorance. But it makes plain what you think of women. And it's mostly wrong when it comes to abortion. BIrth control fails, so women should just never have sex? Yeah, men and women have sex and that isnt going to change...hasnt for millenia. So you would deny women enjoying sex? Disrespect. You dont care what happens to their lives, disrespect. You'd have millions of married couples that cant afford a kid, cant afford more kids, or never want kids to never have sex? Ludicrous.

Do I place women above the unborn? Of course. Do I think the unborn are unimportant? No but women are more important. They are here, contributing to society while the unborn are not and may not survive to be born or might be born severely defective.

Which one of those sounds logical and in the best interests of the individual and society? Placing women first. It's insulting to compare various undeveloped human stages to a complete woman just because you choose to judge her behavior.(Incorrectly for the most part as I pointed out.)

Like I said, there's been no harm to society by abortion, but the benefits are well-known.
 
Phys251 said:
We are two males arguing over a woman's right to choose. There's something ironic about that.



You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either immigrants are good, in which case we should stop with the anti-Latino racism, or immigrants are bad, in which case whites should go back to Europe.
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Mmmmmk, you first.
 
Phys251 said:
We are two males arguing over a woman's right to choose. There's something ironic about that.
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agreed
reminds me of straights arguing that gays cant have equal rights, or people not in interracial relationships saying interracial marriage should be illegal, men saying women shouldnt have equal rights, whites saying blacks shouldnt have equal rights etc etc

ANYBODY that uses human or legal rights to argue for the banning of abortions (or making it "unlimited") has no logical and honest footing to stand on. Its selfishness and or not caring about equality or legal and human rights.
 
Lursa said:
You dont value 'life.' You value life selectively. So do I but at least I admit it. You do not value women's lives. It's plain as day^^^^.

You post is full of ignorance. But it makes plain what you think of women. And it's mostly wrong when it comes to abortion. BIrth control fails, so women should just never have sex? Yeah, men and women have sex and that isnt going to change...hasnt for millenia. So you would deny women enjoying sex? Disrespect. You dont care what happens to their lives, disrespect. You'd have millions of married couples that cant afford a kid, cant afford more kids, or never want kids to never have sex? Ludicrous.

Do I place women above the unborn? Of course. Do I think the unborn are unimportant? No but women are more important. They are here, contributing to society while the unborn are not and may not survive to be born or might be born severely defective.

Which one of those sounds logical and in the best interests of the individual and society? Placing women first. It's insulting to compare various undeveloped human stages to a complete woman just because you choose to judge her behavior.(Incorrectly for the most part as I pointed out.)

Like I said, there's been no harm to society by abortion, but the benefits are well-known.
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Your argument here seems to be that women should never be responsible for their choices. Sorry, I don't see it that way. It takes two to make a child, and if the woman has the child, then you can rest assured that the father will have to pay for that child, or face jail, and he should...But, you want to have YOUR cake, and eat it too...

The harm is in that over a million children are killed each year...That's astonishing, and sad.
 
AGENT J said:
agreed
reminds me of straights arguing that gays cant have equal rights, or people not in interracial relationships saying interracial marriage should be illegal, men saying women shouldnt have equal rights, whites saying blacks shouldnt have equal rights etc etc

ANYBODY that uses human or legal rights to argue for the banning of abortions (or making it "unlimited") has no logical and honest footing to stand on. Its selfishness and or not caring about equality or legal and human rights.
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Nonsense J....This isn't a gay rights thread, so run along now....:2wave:
 
j-mac said:
Nonsense J....This isn't a gay rights thread, so run along now....:2wave:
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weird who said it was? oh that right just a failed strawman you made up lol

nothing changes what i said men arguing over this reminds me of straights arguing that gays cant have equal rights, or people not in interracial relationships saying interracial marriage should be illegal, men saying women shouldnt have equal rights, whites saying blacks shouldnt have equal rights etc etc

fact remains ANYBODY that uses human or legal rights to argue for the banning of abortions (or making it "unlimited") has no logical and honest footing to stand on. :shrug:
 
j-mac said:
Your argument here seems to be that women should never be responsible for their choices. Sorry, I don't see it that way. It takes two to make a child, and if the woman has the child, then you can rest assured that the father will have to pay for that child, or face jail, and he should...But, you want to have YOUR cake, and eat it too...

The harm is in that over a million children are killed each year...That's astonishing, and sad.
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Abortion is very responsible. Birth control fails, married people have sex, use bc, but can still have another pregnancy they cant afford, single couples still waiting...never have sex but bc fails? THey are all just irresponsible?

As I wrote, abortion is a very responsible option. What is not responsible is having a kid you cannot afford and expecting others to pay for it. Or taking the path of least resistance...which is doing nothing and remaining pregnant...and smoking and drinking and doing drugs because you really dont care. Or it enables them to give the attention and financial resources they do have to the kids they already have and living in a more secure place.

And you are fantasizing about unborn that you are not even aware of except in the abstract manufactured to use as a bludgeon against women ...there are no millions of murdered children. THat is something that you choose to personalize and fantasize about. Great...the unfounded angst is all yours.
 
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AGENT J said:
weird who said it was? oh that right just a failed strawman you made up lol

nothing changes what i said men arguing over this reminds me of straights arguing that gays cant have equal rights, or people not in interracial relationships saying interracial marriage should be illegal, men saying women shouldnt have equal rights, whites saying blacks shouldnt have equal rights etc etc

fact remains ANYBODY that uses human or legal rights to argue for the banning of abortions (or making it "unlimited") has no logical and honest footing to stand on. :shrug:
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It can remind you of anything, my feeling is that everything reminds you of the gay rights argument, and no one is denying equal rights for women over men...That is the true strawman if you ask me.
 
j-mac said:
Your argument here seems to be that women should never be responsible for their choices. Sorry, I don't see it that way. It takes two to make a child, and if the woman has the child, then you can rest assured that the father will have to pay for that child, or face jail, and he should...But, you want to have YOUR cake, and eat it too...

The harm is in that over a million children are killed each year...That's astonishing, and sad.
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except for the fact that millions of women feel that abortion IS the responsible act.
Millions of women are driven by thier morals and responsibilities to abort and your opinion is no better than theirs and vice versa

the difference is under the law currently YOU are allowed to make YOUR choice and THEY are allowed to make THEIR choice

you want it so THEY are only allowed to make YOUR choice, by definition you are the only one that wants thier cake and to eat it too
 
j-mac said:
1.)It can remind you of anything, my feeling is that everything reminds you of the gay rights argument
2.) and no one is denying equal rights for women over men...That is the true strawman if you ask me.
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1.) your "feelings" dont matter to reality and facts, thats where you get confused
2.) didnt say THIS was an equal rights issue, equal rights is IMPOSSIBLE on this issue. thats what the strawman is lol

BUT this is a rights issue :shrug:
 
Lursa said:
Abortion is very responsible. Birth control fails, married people have sex, use bc, but can still have another pregnancy they cant afford, single couples still waiting...never have sex but bc fails? THey are all just irresponsible?

As I wrote, abortion is a very responsible option. What is not responsible is having a kid you cannot afford and expecting others to pay for it. Or taking the path of least resistance...which is doing nothing and remaining pregnant...and smoking and drinking and doing drugs because you really dont care.

And you are fantasizing about unborn that you are not even aware of except in the abstract manufactured to use as a bludgeon against women ...there are no millions of murdered children. THat is something that you choose to personalize and fantasize about. Great...the unfounded angst is all yours.
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Wow! I thank you for your honesty of abortion is a convenience thing...However, I find it sad. Oh, and yes there are a million plus every year of murdered children, that is Guttmacher's own stats...See, the fantasy here is that you want to dehumanize the unborn so that you can delude yourself that its not murder....
 
j-mac said:
The harm is in that over a million children are killed each year...That's astonishing, and sad.
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No...that's not harm to society. How has it harmed society? As I've written, abortion can have a positive affect on society:


So please give up the 'sky is falling' abortion drama. No one has shown any harm to society by abortion. However we know that children of single mother homes or families in poverty (where they cant afford more kids) have higher risks of juvenile delinquency, dropping out of school, lower rates of getting higher ed and careers instead of jobs, becoming criminals, staying in the welfare cycle, etc. So the idea of using the law to demand more be born into such situations is ludicrous IMO.[/QUOTE]
 
AGENT J said:
1.) your "feelings" dont matter to reality and facts, thats where you get confused
2.) didnt say THIS was an equal rights issue, equal rights is IMPOSSIBLE on this issue. thats what the strawman is lol

BUT this is a rights issue :shrug:
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Sigh*

1.) Then neither do yours...Who cares what the argument reminds you of?

2.) Really? So who said this? "Its selfishness and or not caring about equality or legal and human rights." Did someone hack your account? You'd better report that....
 
Lursa said:
No...that's not harm to society. How has it harmed society? As I've written, abortion can have a positive affect on society:


So please give up the 'sky is falling' abortion drama. No one has shown any harm to society by abortion. However we know that children of single mother homes or families in poverty (where they cant afford more kids) have higher risks of juvenile delinquency, dropping out of school, lower rates of getting higher ed and careers instead of jobs, becoming criminals, staying in the welfare cycle, etc. So the idea of using the law to demand more be born into such situations is ludicrous IMO.
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How do you know what the unborn would have grown up to be? For all you know it could have produced an answer to the mess we are in right now...

Your position is steeped in selfishness.
 
j-mac said:
Wow! I thank you for your honesty of abortion is a convenience thing...However, I find it sad. Oh, and yes there are a million plus every year of murdered children, that is Guttmacher's own stats...See, the fantasy here is that you want to dehumanize the unborn so that you can delude yourself that its not murder....
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We already discussed how you look at women's ability to get an education, develop a career, have a safe place to live, not have to take welfare, be able to pay her bills and take care of her family properly are all 'conveniences.' It's a ridiculous statement since every one of us here value those things more than you apparently. Or unless you just mean it for women that you consider sluts?

This is one of those self-evident things. A person's life and future are not 'conveniences.'
 
j-mac said:
How do you know what the unborn would have grown up to be? For all you know it could have produced an answer to the mess we are in right now...

Your position is steeped in selfishness.
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No...it's the opposite of selfishness. We KNOW society benefits from abortion.

You just gave me pure speculation of how *you wish it was*. That's selfish. I'm the one discussing what's best for society.

Are you sure you know the definition of 'selfish?'
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j-mac said:
How do you know what the unborn would have grown up to be? For all you know it could have produced an answer to the mess we are in right now...
.
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I always love this one when I see it. Like the same unborn couldnt just as easily be the next Hitler or invent the next superbug or.....you get the picture.

It's a silly, short-sighted thought, missing half the equation.
 
j-mac said:
Sigh*

1.) Then neither do yours...Who cares what the argument reminds you of?

2.) Really? So who said this? "Its selfishness and or not caring about equality or legal and human rights." Did someone hack your account? You'd better report that....
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WOW thanks for proving yourself wrong
1.) i didnt claim anybody did LMAO fail
2.) me but that doesnt say EQUAL RIGHTS does it?
are you telling me everytime sombdoy says equal or equality it means equal rights?

so when i made my nieces breakfast this morning and i said im gonna give them equal amounts of jelly if they are both good that was an equal rights issue? sorry thats a greatly retarded assumption and your mistake

also THANK YOU for quoting me and further proving your claim wrong lets look at my qoute AGAIN

"Its selfishness and or not caring about equality or legal and human rights."

see the OR that means they are SEPARATE issues lol

if i meant rights for ALL of them i would of simply said equal, human and legal rights.

so both logic and English show your mistake.

let me know if theres any other mistakes i can help you with, you're welcome
facts win again


and staying on topic the fact remains it is a rights issue
 
Lursa said:
We already discussed how you look at women's ability to get an education, develop a career, have a safe place to live, not have to take welfare, be able to pay her bills and take care of her family properly are all 'conveniences.' It's a ridiculous statement since every one of us here value those things more than you apparently. Or unless you just mean it for women that you consider sluts?

This is one of those self-evident things. A person's life and future are not 'conveniences.'
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You are giving me nothing but strawmen, and anger charged rhetoric...If that's all you got, lets hope that some day you'll see the light....
 
j-mac said:
You are giving me nothing but strawmen, and anger charged rhetoric...If that's all you got, lets hope that some day you'll see the light....
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No anger. This is about the millionth time I've cut and pasted this stuff and I've seen it all before.

You also need a dictionary for' strawman' because ALL those things are integrally a part of the discussion if you have any ability to consider women at all. Apparently you dont. So there's no way that you have any High Ground here.

Edit: btw, you might notice that while I provide information and examples, you only provide insults, nasty comments disrespecting women and their lives, and denials. No actual facts to support your denials of my posts. Like where I said abortion was a responsible option. Just got another retreat back to 'see, it's all about convenience.' I bet you say that all the time when you think about your taxes going to welfare, huh?

Or where I provide substance regarding how society can benefit from abortion and you come back with ...we are missing out on the next Einstein!
 
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AGENT J said:
WOW thanks for proving yourself wrong
1.) i didnt claim anybody did LMAO fail
2.) me but that doesnt say EQUAL RIGHTS does it?
are you telling me everytime sombdoy says equal or equality it means equal rights?

so when i made my nieces breakfast this morning and i said im gonna give them equal amounts of jelly if they are both good that was an equal rights issue? sorry thats a greatly retarded assumption and your mistake

also THANK YOU for quoting me and further proving your claim wrong lets look at my qoute AGAIN

"Its selfishness and or not caring about equality or legal and human rights."

see the OR that means they are SEPARATE issues lol

if i meant rights for ALL of them i would of simply said equal, human and legal rights.

so both logic and English show your mistake.

let me know if theres any other mistakes i can help you with, you're welcome
facts win again


and staying on topic the fact remains it is a rights issue
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Oh for Christ's sake....Bye bye now J....have a good one. :2wave:
 
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