U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Roadvirus · Feb 26, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
The USA persuaded the Ukraine to act foolishly and then Russia responded accordingly.

Why did Russia have to respond? Their territory wasn't effected by the overthrow of Putin's puppet.

flogger · Feb 26, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Roadvirus said:
Why did Russia have to respond? Their territory wasn't effected by the overthrow of Putin's puppet.

I'd be interested to know what this alleged US 'persuasion' was that made the protesters face down Yanukovych's guns whilst unarmed.

It must have been mightily compelling stuff ! :lol:

JP Cusick · Feb 26, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Roadvirus said:
Why did Russia have to respond? Their territory wasn't effected by the overthrow of Putin's puppet.

It really is not a secret that the USA was involved in the overthrow of the Ukraine President.

See here (one of many sources) = Brokering power: US role in Ukraine coup hard to overlook ? RT News

So after that it was a USA puppet who took over the Ukraine.

And the Ukraine is the neighbor to Russia and among so many other reasons - the proximity alone is justifiable reason enough for Russia to have its own vested interest and to intervene accordingly.

Russia did not have to respond - no - Russia responded because it was the right thing to do against the meddling warmonger nation of the USA in the Ukraine.

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
It really is not a secret that the USA was involved in the overthrow of the Ukraine President.

You do a very good job of keeping it then .

See here (one of many sources) = Brokering power: US role in Ukraine coup hard to overlook ? RT News

Your (one of many sources) is a broken link to the largest Russian state propaganda site . RT ?? :lol:

The difference between real journalism and Russia Today » The Spectator

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-today-western-cynics-lap-up-putins-tv-poison

So after that it was a USA puppet who took over the Ukraine.

What US puppet ? This guy was voted into office twice last year in OSCE monitored elections that had 60% voter turnout in the 91% of the country able to vote. Thats a greater figure than in the last US election

And the Ukraine is the neighbor to Russia and among so many other reasons - the proximity alone is justifiable reason enough for Russia to have its own vested interest and to intervene accordingly.

No it is not as per Russia's signature on the 1975 Helsinki treaty which just to refresh yor memory states

According to Article I of the Helsinki Final Act which established the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in 1975, every country has the right "to belong or not to belong to international organizations, to be or not to be a party to bilateral or multilateral treaties including the right to be or not to be a party to treaties of alliance." All the OSCE member states, including Russia, have sworn to uphold those principles.

In line with those principles, Ukraine has the right to choose for itself whether it joins any treaty of alliance, including NATO's founding treaty.

Moreover, when Russia signed the Founding Act, it pledged to uphold "respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security".

Thus Ukraine has the right to choose its own alliances, and Russia has, by its own repeated agreement, no right to dictate that choice.

Helsinki Final Act | OSCE

You might want to check out the legality of Russia's action here too.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/ctc/uncharter.pdf

Russia did not have to respond - no - Russia responded because it was the right thing to do against the meddling warmonger nation of the USA in the Ukraine.

Please describe this warmongering to us ? The US has only 28,000 military personnel stationed in Europe where she once had 213,000 back in 1990. There have been large reductions all other EU NATO nations too. Russia has 850,000 under arms and increasing it is currently engaged in a war of conquest against its neighbour in breach of all treaties it has signed with her. She is also in breach of the UN charter the Helsinki Agreement and other international treaties which she is a signatory to .

Who is the warmonger ?

Rogue Valley · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
It really is not a secret that the USA was involved in the overthrow of the Ukraine President.

According to your own "might is right" ideology, there is nothing wrong with this. Anyone can interfere anywhere without prohibition or consequence.

JP Cusick · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Your (one of many sources) is a broken link to the largest Russian state propaganda site . RT ?? :lol:

You attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

And in this case the Russian News is the credible one.

So here is another link with the same report = Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change” | Global Research

And as I said these are just 2 of many because President Obama made the statement on CNN’s Fareed Zakiria - unless you want to attack that messenger too as your way of avoiding the message and the reality - or shall we call that as a FACT.

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
You attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

No I highlighted the propaganda

And in this case the Russian News is the credible one.

I already linked for you earlier that it wasn't

So here is another link with the same report = Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change” | Global Research

And (surprise surprise) just guess what source they quoted in its entirety for this article ? ......Sputnik news !!!:lamo

http://www.buzzfeed.com/miriamelder...-outlet-and-its-everything-you-th#.mg77oxnw35

Is selective misrepresentations of the West from Russian propaganda outlets and subjective opinion pieces really all you've got ?

JP Cusick · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
No I highlighted the propaganda

I already linked for you earlier that it wasn't

And (surprise surprise) just guess what source they quoted in its entirety for this article ? ......Sputnik news !!!:lamo

I say that you are just being cowardly by attacking the messengers while avoiding the message.

It was said on CNN by the US President on February 1, 2015.

See it here = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmUNCsT8TjU

Montecresto · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
I say that you are just being cowardly by attacking the messengers while avoiding the message.

It was said on CNN by the US President on February 1, 2015.

See it here = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmUNCsT8TjU

You're persistent, you get an E for effort with the knuckle heads.

Rogue Valley · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
It was said on CNN by the US President on February 1, 2015.

Certainly a deal was brokered. It was reported around the globe. The deal was between Yanukovych and the opposition leaders. Present also were representatives of Germany, France, Poland, and Russia.

FEBRUARY 21, 2014

Viktor Yanukovych signs agreement with Ukraine opposition. 21 February 2014

"Yanukovych has agreed to an early presidential election as part of a deal to end the long-running crisis. He said he had also agreed to a national unity government, and to make constitutional changes reducing the power of the president. The compromise came after hours of talks with the opposition leaders.

Breakthrough? Ukrainian President, Opposition Leaders Reach Deal

Rather than honor the breakthrough deal he signed, Yanukovych abdicated and fled that very night.

Thoreau72 · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Roadvirus said:
We invaded Afghanistan because of the Taliban and Al-Queda.
We invaded Iraq under the concern of WMD
We use drone strikes to kill terrorists.

Care to try again?

Yessir, all the way, and Pat Tillman was killed by enemy fire, Jessica Lynch was mistreated by her captors, and Bill Clinton never had sex with that woman. Yessir, whatever you say.

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
I say that you are just being cowardly by attacking the messengers while avoiding the message.

It was said on CNN by the US President on February 1, 2015.

See it here = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmUNCsT8TjU

Yes but lets see the context of that interview our Russian friends didn't show after chopping Obama off in mid sentence and then looping the tape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duu6IwW3sbw

Sinister stuff :lol:

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Simpleχity;1064363707 said:
Certainly a deal was brokered. It was reported around the globe. The deal was between Yanukovych and the opposition leaders. Present also were representatives of Germany, France, Poland, and Russia.
Breakthrough? Ukrainian President, Opposition Leaders Reach Deal

Rather than honor the breakthrough deal he signed, Yanukovych abdicated and fled that very night.

Interestingly there was actually no US representative at all at that 'brokered' deal but there was one (ironically) from Russia :shock:

Here are the names and nationalities of all those present

Signatories:

President of Ukraine: Viktor Yanukovych

For the Opposition: Vitaliy Klichko, UDAR, Oleh Tyahnibok, Svoboda, Arsenij Yatseniuk, Batkivshchyna

Witnessed by:

For the EU – Poland: foreign minister Radoslaw Sikorski; Germany: foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier; France: foreign minister Laurent Fabius

For the Russian Federation – Vladimir Lukin, special envoy

Where are the Americans who's evil designs were supposed to be all over this ?

Rogue Valley · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Interestingly there was actually no US representative at all at that 'brokered' deal...

Nope. No Yank at all. Not a one. Even Russia's representative Vladimir Lukin would have to admit ... Nulevyye Amerikantsy.

JP Cusick · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
You're persistent, you get an E for effort with the knuckle heads.

I hope that you notice that I do not play it as their game is being played.

As such I happily accept my "E for Effort" as it was hard earned.

==========================================

Simpleχity;1064363707 said:
Certainly a deal was brokered. It was reported around the globe. The deal was between Yanukovych and the opposition leaders. Present also were representatives of Germany, France, Poland, and Russia.

Not Russia.

And excluding Russia made the deal as offensive.

===========================================

flogger said:
Yes but lets see the context of that interview our Russian friends didn't show after chopping Obama off in mid sentence and then looping the tape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duu6IwW3sbw

Sinister stuff :lol:

No, what I said was accurate and it is still true.

Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change” | Global Research

As such all the hostility in the Ukraine which followed that was the after effects of the USA creation.

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change” | Global Research

As such all the hostility in the Ukraine which followed that was the after effects of the USA creation.

Well you've got a big problem with that haven't you. How did the US broker this deal when no representative of the US was there ? When Obama said 'we' brokered it he was referring to the efforts of the international community that were engaged in it not the US which wasn't

I guess Sputnik news missed that bit :lol:

JP Cusick · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Well you've got a big problem with that haven't you. How did the US broker this deal when no representative of the US was there ? When Obama said 'we' brokered it he was referring to the efforts of the international community that were engaged in it not the US which wasn't

I guess Sputnik news missed that bit :lol:

The News report is honest and factual.

It is just your self that is neither.

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
The News report is honest and factual.

It is just your self that is neither.

I'm more than happy to let more objective posters gauge for themselves what is honest and factual about Sputnik news ! :lol:

JP Cusick · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
I'm more than happy to let more objective posters gauge for themselves what is honest and factual about Sputnik news ! :lol:

Do you really view other people as so cowardly that they too would only attack the messenger while hiding away from the message?

I certainly hope that the other people are much bigger than that.

Rogue Valley · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
Not Russia. And excluding Russia made the deal as offensive.

Sorry pal. Even your beloved Sputnik says Russian representatives were there...

21 February 2014

Negotiations between Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, opposition leaders, European Union and Russian representatives have been completed, it said. The negotiations that lasted 8 hours involved opposition leaders Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Oleh Tyahnybok and Vitali Klitschko, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski and Russian Human Rights Ombudsman Vladimir Lukin.

The Voice of Russia

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
Do you really view other people as so cowardly that they too would only attack the messenger while hiding away from the message?

No I simply view you as a myopic anti US xenophobe who will clutch at any fantastical interpretation of events out there that you think will bolster your innate prejudices.

I certainly hope that the other people are much bigger than that

You certainly aren't in any position to judge given you've already freely admitted in the past to not knowing the difference between fact and opinion

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Simpleχity;1064364832 said:
Sorry pal. Even your beloved Sputnik says Russian representatives were there...

The Voice of Russia

Still no sign of those pesky Americans though

JP Cusick · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Simpleχity;1064364832 said:
Sorry pal. Even your beloved Sputnik says Russian representatives were there...

The Voice of Russia

Well your first link claim did not include any Russian as you claimed.

Now your second link here does not function.

But aside from that - just because there was some Russian person in the room does NOT mean that there was any representative of the Russian government included.

And our own President Obama admitted that the US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change” in the Ukraine in the first place.

So I guess there was some Russian person in that room too - duh.

flogger · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
Well your first link claim did not include any Russian as you claimed.

Now your second link here does not function.

But aside from that - just because there was some Russian person in the room does NOT mean that there was any representative of the Russian government included.

And our own President Obama admitted that the US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change” in the Ukraine in the first place.

So I guess there was some Russian person in that room too - duh.

The Russian person in the room was in fact Putins special envoy Vladimir Lukin the Russian commissioner for human rights. So not just any old Russian

There was no US representative at these talks so how did the US feature in the 'brokering' ? Obama said 'we brokered a deal' (he did not specify the US) in reference to the collective efforts of the international community . I already posted a full list of the real international 'brokers' on post # 863 please note the absence of any American representative, not that that will make the slightest difference to you of course

You will need to reboot your cherished US conspiracy theory using something else I'm afraid

JP Cusick · Feb 27, 2015

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
The Russian person in the room was in fact Putins special envoy Vladimir Lukin the Russian commissioner for human rights. So not just any old Russian

There was no US representative at these talks so how did the US feature in the 'brokering' ? Obama said 'we brokered a deal' (he did not specify the US) in reference to the collective efforts of the international community . I already posted a full list of the real international 'brokers' on post # 863 please note the absence of any American representative, not that that will make the slightest difference to you of course

You will need to reboot your cherished US conspiracy theory using something else I'm afraid

According to Wiki then the so-called Russian in the room of Vladimir Lukin - his term of office expired in March 2014.

So MAYBE he was there even though there has been nothing that shows him to be there, but his position had expired which means that he was NOT representing the government of Russia.

When no representative of the Russian government is present then it is a charade to claim that some Russian citizen was present.

As always it is just more deception and untruths.

And the statement by President Obama had NOTHING to do with your imaginary room as he said that the USA brokered the Ukrainian Presidential coup.

Oh yes - that is the part that you keep trying to snake away from.

U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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