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U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

face said:
Yes because only mentally challenged Russian trolls don't know the difference between NATO membership and an EU association agreement, this entire scenario started because of imperialistic Russian aggression and maintaining their regional economic hegemony, for the fascist Putin economic self determination for the Ukraine was unacceptable which is why he started all of this by first waging economic war and then illegally invading and annexing Ukrainian territory.
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Lol. Your a waste of my time. And but a pimple on Mearsheimer's ass.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

face said:
Yes because only mentally challenged Russian trolls don't know the difference between NATO membership and an EU association agreement, this entire scenario started because of imperialistic Russian aggression and maintaining their regional economic hegemony, for the fascist Putin economic self determination for the Ukraine was unacceptable which is why he started all of this by first waging economic war and then illegally invading and annexing Ukrainian territory.
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Try as I might I cannot get a coherent explanation of why Ukraines economic union with the EU would have anything to do with the US or NATO yet they are getting all the blame nonetheless ? Its like talking to a brick wall of myopic and impenetrable bigotry :(
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Try as I might I cannot get a coherent explanation of why Ukraines economic union with the EU would have anything to do with the US or NATO yet they are getting all the blame nonetheless ? Its like talking to a brick wall of myopic and impenetrable bigotry :(
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Then stop wasting time. Go have a fish and chips and wash it down with ginger beer.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Try as I might I cannot get a coherent explanation of why Ukraines economic union with the EU would have anything to do with the US or NATO yet they are getting all the blame nonetheless ? Its like talking to a brick wall of myopic and impenetrable bigotry :(
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We're pretty sure it's all an act. Nobody could be that dumb. Maybe it's a good payday to pretend to ignorance at this late date. You're just here trolling and we know that, but not to worry, you've never stated anything worth quoting.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
And for the equal number of times,
Then NATO began looking further east. At its April 2008 summit in Bucharest, the alliance considered admitting Georgia and Ukraine. The George W. Bush administration supported doing so, but France and Germany opposed the move for fear that it would unduly antagonize Russia. In the end, NATO’s members reached a compromise: the alliance did not begin the formal process leading to membership, but it issued a statement endorsing the aspirations of Georgia and Ukraine and boldly declaring, “These countries will become members of NATO.”
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I didn't ask you for Meirsheimers oft rebutted opinion piece to be repeated again I asked you for evidence

Is it true that the West has been determined to incorporate Ukraine into NATO? Has Ukraine wanted to join the alliance? The answer to both questions, as Ukraine experts know, is a resounding no. Neither NATO nor any major NATO country has ever stated that Ukraine should be incorporated immediately into the alliance. And for good reason: they understood that no NATO member state would invoke Article 5 and rush to Ukraine’s assistance in case of an attack by Russia. True, the North Atlantic Council stated the following at its Bucharest summit of April 3, 2008: “NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO […] We will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their Membership Action Plan applications”. The first line is about as squishy an endorsement of Ukrainian membership as one can imagine. But the second—“We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO”—is profoundly non-committal, employing the future tense (“will become”) without any specificity whatsoever. I submit that no rational leader, or analyst, could possibly interpret these words as a ringing endorsement of Ukraine’s immediate membership in NATO.


http://www.europeanleadershipnetwor...heimer-impeccable-logic-wrong-facts_2079.html


Here's what's truly perplexing; there's plenty of us that see right thru the fog of NATO expansion, but most important, is that so has Russia this entire time. What flog thinks doesn't mean ****. Russia has drawn its non symbolic red line, and the West will not be stepping any further east. Only Angela seems to recognize this
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Well if this appeasement continues there will be war. It seems to be something you are hoping for
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

DaveFagan said:
We're pretty sure it's all an act. Nobody could be that dumb. Maybe it's a good payday to pretend to ignorance at this late date. You're just here trolling and we know that, but not to worry, you've never stated anything worth quoting.
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And still no explanation on how the EU association agreement equates to NATO membership, it would seem that you are one of the mentally challenged members of Putin's Cult of Personality I was speaking of.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

DaveFagan said:
We're pretty sure it's all an act. Nobody could be that dumb. Maybe it's a good payday to pretend to ignorance at this late date. You're just here trolling and we know that, but not to worry, you've never stated anything worth quoting.
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Talk about irony ! :lamo
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Lol. Your a waste of my time. And but a pimple on Mearsheimer's ass.
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And yet another in a never ending non-responses.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Well if this appeasement continues there will be war. It seems to be something you are hoping for
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There alread is war in the Ukraine, If Putin isnt stopped the war will expand.
Appeasment never works long term.
 
austrianecon said:
LOL. A list is a list. Crowely gave the last to others to be release upon his death. From Daniel Brandt and your like... some half-dozen are either Trilateral Commission members, or Bilderberg participants, or both. You know who's on both and the Crowely list? Aatos Errko.

But you got sloppy and tried to play a gotcha game.. You lose.
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The list is conspiracy theorist nonsense with absolutely zero evidence that it A) Came from Crowley and B) that it's factual.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
That is being disingenuous as a play on words.

The USA wants to control the Ukraine, so control is not exactly taking the Country.
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Russian tanks and troops currently occupy the Eastern Ukraine.

In exchange for giving up nuclear arms the US promised the Ukraine that it would help protect the Ukraine's sovereignty. The Ukranian government is angry that the US hasn't done more.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
There alread is war in the Ukraine, If Putin isnt stopped the war will expand.
Appeasment never works long term.
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Dictators simply get emboldened by it . Putin himself has claimed the break up of the USSR was the greatest disaster to befall his country in the last century. The lack of response from the west to this aggression will only encourage his attempts at re constituting the Russian empire.

Putin was quoted threatening that Russia could be in Kiev in two days - and also in Riga, Vilnius, Tallinn, Warsaw and Bucharest

All are former USSR or Soviet-bloc cities and apart from Ukraine their countries are now NATO and EU members

This guy doesn't sound much like any kind of peacemaker to me. Nor that his current ambitions will be limited to Ukraine :(

Moscow troops could be in five NATO capitals in two days, boasts Putin: Leader boasted to Ukrainian president about Russian power* | Daily Mail Online
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

face said:
And still no explanation on how the EU association agreement equates to NATO membership, it would seem that you are one of the mentally challenged members of Putin's Cult of Personality I was speaking of.
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One quite naturally proceeds the other. Pity you don't understand that.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Simpleχity;1064347130 said:
And I haven't supported any of those adventures ... on the same grounds that I do here. It is morally, ethically, and legally wrong. You just can't seem to comprehend that. No matter what anyone else has done, it does not exculpate Russia in regards to Crimea and Ukraine. It's not a difficult concept ... the same international rules apply equally to everyone.
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And yet you can't get around the concept, it doesn't. What is moral, ethical or legal is made as we go and always has. International rules have never been applied equally and you can see that from the fact that NO US President, political figure and so on have never been tried at the Hague for the crimes the US has committed. So don't even argue this high and mighty position with me.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
By that twisted logic the USA has every right to invade and annex Cuba because of Guantanamo.
Seriously what right does Putin have to invade and annex part of another country and stop trying to pretend he didn't do that because even he admits he did.
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Only because your lack knowledge when it comes to US/Cuba relations. US seized Guantanamo during the Spanish-American War and only agreed to leave the rest of Cuba if The Platt Amendment was agreed too. The agreement gave the US the right to invoke the right to invade if there is any social uprest. A few years later (1906) when the threat of the loss of Guantanamo became a possibility after the pro-American President Tomás Estrada Palma regime fell, US invaded Cuba for a second time and occupied Cuba for 3 years. During that period Sec of War William H. Taft was named Provisional Governor of Cuba per Platt Amendment. US occupied Cuba several times from 1902-1922. Then in 1933 US supported the overthrow of Gerardo Machado and ended up with Ramon Grau who told the US to bugger off and tore up the Platt Amendment. US then backed Fulgencio Batista who became a dictator and pissed off enough people that lead to the rise of the Castros.

Guantanamo today is part of a lease. US pays Cuba money for the land and usage for the base ever year. Cuba doesn't accept payments so it sits in a bank account at treasury. Cuba also has guarantee from the US that US will not invade Cuba if the lease is not extended in the future (agreement during Cuba Missile Crisis). At some point Guantanamo will be back in Cuban hands as the US is actually using Gitmo in violation of agreed terms.

US itself couldn't legally annex Cuba in 1902 because US Congress said no. Russia on the other hand doesn't mind annexing what was once Russian land. I am not saying Russia didn't "invade" or annexed Crimea, I am just telling you this is NO different then what the US has done several times.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
So if the US does something wrong then its OK for Putin to do so?
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Absolutely. The hypocrisy of the west here is quiet large. Will the US give Gitmo back? Of course not because the US still sees it as vital to National interests.. Russia was pro active in protecting it's rights in the Black Sea because Russia sees Crimea as vital to their national interests. Can't be any clear then that. You can't expect anybody to just write off their national interest without a fight.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

austrianecon said:
Yes, US has put plans together for it. US Government also offered contracts on FedBizOpps.gov that were butter up contracts to the local populace. That's the first step in any building of a new bases overseas.
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Your linked evidence will be dismissed by the Scott who thinks he has a superior opinion. Btw. Putin doesn't need validation for responding to Western intrigue.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

austrianecon said:
Yes, US has put plans together for it. US Government also offered contracts on FedBizOpps.gov that were butter up contracts to the local populace. That's the first step in any building of a new bases overseas.
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Desperate BS . Did you even read this ? This is a contract to renovate and repair a Sevastopol school roof ! This is your definitive evidence ! :lamo

Here is what really counts

On 21 April 2010, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych signed an agreement in which Russia agreed to a 30% drop in the price of natural gas sold to Ukraine. Russia agreed to this in exchange for permission to extend Russia's lease of a major naval base in the Ukrainian Black Sea port of Sevastopol for an additional 25 years (to 2042) with an additional 5 year renewal option (to 2047).


Kharkiv Pact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Your linked evidence will be dismissed by the Scott who thinks he has a superior opinion. Btw. Putin doesn't need validation for responding to Western intrigue.
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Well if you think of a school renovation contract is smoking gun evidence of a NATO move to take Sevastopol you are even further gone than I thought ! :lamo
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Well if you think of a school renovation contract is smoking gun evidence of a NATO move to take Sevastopol you are even further gone than I thought ! :lamo
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Say, what's your angel in all this, hmm. Some how, Putin is up your ass personally. See a doctor dude. Do something. Putin isn't going away, and I'm enjoying watching you and your buddy's twitch.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

austrianecon said:
Absolutely. The hypocrisy of the west here is quiet large. Will the US give Gitmo back? Of course not because the US still sees it as vital to National interests.. Russia was pro active in protecting it's rights in the Black Sea because Russia sees Crimea as vital to their national interests. Can't be any clear then that. You can't expect anybody to just write off their national interest without a fight.
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Except for the fact that this was not just about to happen you might have had a point
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Say, what's your angel in all this, hmm. Some how, Putin is up your ass personally. See a doctor dude. Do something. Putin isn't going away, and I'm enjoying watching you and your buddy's twitch.
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Thanks for the trolling admission but it really wasn't necessary. My angel ? I'm not religious :cool:
 
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