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U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
If hypothetically the US had done the same thing to Canada as Russia is doing to Ukraine I'd have been just as scathing in my condemnation of it. I'm not a xenpohobic bigot and just call a spade a spade.
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Again you are deflecting the question away from the reality.

As in if Russia was trying to put a puppet government into Canada or Mexico then the USA would become more like Russia in the Ukraine.

The USA wanted to put its own puppet control over the Ukraine and Russia rightfully interfered in that.

And the USA has a long standing declaration called the Monroe Doctrine which gives a justification to Russia defending its own border Country from the USA intrusion.

We the USA claim our own oversight of all our western hemisphere Countries and yet pretend that Russia has no oversight of its next-door neighbor the Ukraine.

As such our side is wrong.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
That is simple obvious reality.

That the USA was intent on the opposite is another simple obvious reality
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The US has had nothing whatsoever to do with any of what has happened and thats the only 'simple obvious reality' to cannot accept
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
Again you are deflecting the question away from the reality.
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I do at least address reality rather than fantasy

As in if Russia was trying to put a puppet government into Canada or Mexico then the USA would become more like Russia in the Ukraine.The USA wanted to put its own puppet control over the Ukraine and Russia rightfully interfered in that.
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Please show evidence that the US has tried to do this or influenced in any way the results of both elections in Ukraine last year or provoked or assisted in any way the Maidan protests that overthrew Yanukovych ? No more opinions just facts please ?

And the USA has a long standing declaration called the Monroe Doctrine which gives a justification to Russia defending its own border Country from the USA intrusion.
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Please show any evidence of this US intrusion in Ukraine

We the USA claim our own oversight of all our western hemisphere Countries and yet pretend that Russia has no oversight of its next-door neighbor the Ukraine.
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Russia has no right to do anything of the sort as per the UN charter to which she is a signatory
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
This is really a smart intelligent summary, so why would not the Europeans embrace Russia as their friend and ally as Russia has always been?
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What alternate universe do you inhabit where anyone could seriously believe that I wonder :shock:

Instead Europe is aligning with the belligerent warmonger USA in direct opposition to the smart intelligent words quoted above.
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No she is belatedly reacting to a belligerent warmonger fighting an illegitimate war of conquest in the East. You really are a US bashing one trick pony here
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
This is really a smart intelligent summary, so why would not the Europeans embrace Russia as their friend and ally as Russia has always been?

Instead Europe is aligning with the belligerent warmonger USA in direct opposition to the smart intelligent words quoted above.
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For one thing, the US isn't threatening to take their territory.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

MrFirst said:
How do you know the act of terrorism in Kharkov is "Putins plan"?
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Are you kidding me ? This is the prelude to sending the thugs in to 'restore order'

The population of Kharkov is 1.4 million people. As everybody can see the whole bunch of people attended the "pro-Ukrainian" rally. Maybe several hundreds. Most of them in military uniform.
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Plenty more aren't in uniform looking at the baby carraiges and women running from the scene.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Yes, I'll be here defending Putin, IN THIS CASE, mind you.
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Despite the fact that his actions are indefensible
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
Despite the fact that his actions are indefensible
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Remember, that's your opinion, but it's not the only opinion.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
Despite the fact that his actions are indefensible
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Don't burden him with trivial technicalities like that :cool:
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Remember, that's your opinion, but it's not the only opinion.
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No that is a fact.
Putin had no right even under any of your imaginary scenarios to secretly invade and annex part of Ukraine.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
No that is a fact.
Putin had no right even under any of your imaginary scenarios to secretly invade and annex part of Ukraine.
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Lol, oh you poor dear.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Lol, oh you poor dear.
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I`m not the one making nonsensical arguments based on crazy conspiracy theories.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
No more opinions just facts please ?

Please show any evidence of this US intrusion in Ukraine
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One of many pieces of evidence is here at # 369 =

Or see here = John J. Mearsheimer | How the West Caused the Ukraine Crisis | Foreign Affairs

Published by the COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS



======================================


LowDown said:
For one thing, the US isn't threatening to take their territory.
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That is being disingenuous as a play on words.

The USA wants to control the Ukraine, so control is not exactly taking the Country.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
I`m not the one making nonsensical arguments based on crazy conspiracy theories.
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I've heard your opinion enough, and I'm truly empathetic that Putin's high ground in this is rubbing you a rash.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
I've heard your opinion enough, and I'm truly empathetic that Putin's high ground in this is rubbing you a rash.
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I havent expressed an opinion I have expressed facts and asked you to give a valid reason why you think Putin can secretly invade and annex part of another country, you have yet to give a logical response.
As to the high ground the guy invading and annexing lands from his neighbor is no where near it.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
One of many pieces of evidence is here at # 369 =

Or see here = John J. Mearsheimer | How the West Caused the Ukraine Crisis | Foreign Affairs

Published by the COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS



======================================



That is being disingenuous as a play on words.

The USA wants to control the Ukraine, so control is not exactly taking the Country.
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These arm chair politicians have a better understanding then the senior fellow at the CFR. They're not going to have it. They are however going to continue to spit and sputter over Putin's response to the West in Ukraine, because, it's obvious, this should have been anticipated, and the WH failed to properly read the Russian mood on NATO expansion. Oh, and one more thing, they deny that it even was an attempt at NATO expansion.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
I havent expressed an opinion I have expressed facts and asked you to give a valid reason why you think Putin can secretly invade and annex part of another country, you have yet to give a logical response.
As to the high ground the guy invading and annexing lands from his neighbor is no where near it.
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I've articulated it ad nauseam, you just fancy your opinion to it, so no, no more repetition. I'll leave you with your consternation and bewilderment at the brazenness of Putin to look after his countries interests.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
I've articulated it ad nauseam, you just fancy your opinion to it, so no, no more repetition. I'll leave you with your consternation and bewilderment at the brazenness of Putin to look after his countries interests.
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Basically your 2 main points are:
1) What is Putin percieves as right is right.
2) The USA does bad things too.
Sorry neither of those are even remotely decent arguments.
Then you add some tin foil hat conspiracy BS that ignores reality and still doesnt provide a reason why Putin had the right to Invade and Annex part of the Ukraine.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
One of many pieces of evidence is here at # 369 =

Or see here = John J. Mearsheimer | How the West Caused the Ukraine Crisis | Foreign Affairs
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You've posted this opinion piece half a dozen times now and it has been rebutted multiple times with each repetition. Does linking it twice in the one post mean its got any more significance this time ?

Which part of 'post evidence and not opinion' was in any way unclear for you ?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Oh, and one more thing, they deny that it even was an attempt at NATO expansion.
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Of course its denied. For the umpteenth time please post your evidence that either the US or indeed any other combination of NATO member countries has ever suggested Ukraine membership ?
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Of course its denied. For the umpteenth time please post your evidence that either the US or indeed any other NATO member country has ever offered Ukraine membership ?
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Aside from that being just pure tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense.
How does a hypothetical entering of Ukraine into NATO give Putin the right to invade and annex par tof Ukraine?
Just mind boglling the contortions they go through to try and pretend that a meglomaniac dictator like Putin is really just a good guy who is only invading and annexing his neighbors for the peace and security of everyone.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
Aside from that being just pure tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense.
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I'm starting to suspect its just deliberate flaming and trolling now frankly

How does a hypothetical entering of Ukraine into NATO give Putin the right to invade and annex par tof Ukraine?
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It doesn't

Just mind boglling the contortions they go through to try and pretend that a meglomaniac dictator like Putin is really just a good guy who is only invading and annexing his neighbors for the peace and security of everyone.
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Yup. This is getting deep into 9/11 truther levels of lunacy now. If you can justify what Putin is up to on the international stage you can justify anything !
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
These arm chair politicians have a better understanding then the senior fellow at the CFR. They're not going to have it. They are however going to continue to spit and sputter over Putin's response to the West in Ukraine, because, it's obvious, this should have been anticipated, and the WH failed to properly read the Russian mood on NATO expansion. Oh, and one more thing, they deny that it even was an attempt at NATO expansion.
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Yes because only mentally challenged Russian trolls don't know the difference between NATO membership and an EU association agreement, this entire scenario started because of imperialistic Russian aggression and maintaining their regional economic hegemony, for the fascist Putin economic self determination for the Ukraine was unacceptable which is why he started all of this by first waging economic war and then illegally invading and annexing Ukrainian territory.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Of course its denied. For the umpteenth time please post your evidence that either the US or indeed any other combination of NATO member countries has ever suggested Ukraine membership ?
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And for the equal number of times,

Then NATO began looking further east. At its April 2008 summit in Bucharest, the alliance considered admitting Georgia and Ukraine. The George W. Bush administration supported doing so, but France and Germany opposed the move for fear that it would unduly antagonize Russia. In the end, NATO’s members reached a compromise: the alliance did not begin the formal process leading to membership, but it issued a statement endorsing the aspirations of Georgia and Ukraine and boldly declaring, “These countries will become members of NATO.”

Here's what's truly perplexing; there's plenty of us that see right thru the fog of NATO expansion, but most important, is that so has Russia this entire time. What flog thinks doesn't mean ****. Russia has drawn its non symbolic red line, and the West will not be stepping any further east. Only Angela seems to recognize this.
 
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