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U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

So you prefer a despotic oppressor in control of your life then ? :lol:


Anything to put done the US is ok by him.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Putin invaded Ukraine with soldiers who had removed the insignia from their uniforms and denied that Russian troops were there until well after he had taken control, that Is why he secretly invaded.
You are arguing that what Putin is doing is Ok because the USA does it. That is the classic two wrongs make a right argument and it is wrong.
As to hypocrisy you best find a dictionary and read what it means, because I have not said the USA is ok if they do the same as Putin. In fact I have said the opposite.

Wrong again and still. Let me be the one to articulate my own argument, hear? I'm pointing to the hypocrisy of the US (and YOU) for accusing Russia of using military force to advance their interests when there's no end to the examples of the US doing the same, and not always overtly!
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Anything to put done the US is ok by him.

You and the rest of the patronising posters may characterise exposing wrong doing as "putting down" but that is candid deflection!
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Once again: that would be extremely strange as you have absolutely nothing to do with Crimea.

That's right....we don't. So why do you and other Putin Lovers here keep saying the US is at fault or bullying or whatever?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Seems to me that we're leaning heavily on Russia over Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, somebody in Washington must think that its our business.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Our petty bullying? We weren't the ones who walked into Crimea, said "It's ours", held a globally-unrecognized referendum to make it official and then started sending weapons to our ethnic cousins next door to start a ****storm.
Since we the USA did not do that then no - of course that is not being said.

The American bullying is about the things that the USA did do and what we keep on doing as our bullying.

When Russia annexed the Crimea then that was not bullying - no - that was Russia putting down their foot as like the governing authority does.

It is confusing to see the USA bullying tactics being used against Russia because Russia could wipe us off of the face of the earth in less than 30 minutes, so the USA is being utterly foolish trying to bully a sleeping Bear which we do not have the power to bully.

And it is very probable that Russia could strike us first and knock out our primary defenses so that we would not even be able to retaliate, as we are super vulnerable and only the Americans are too blind stupid to NOT see this glaring reality.


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Western propaganda ? So is Russia's state controlled media better ?
It is not a competition.

I have no idea what is said in the Russian media.

What I do see and do know is that our American propaganda is insanely stupid.

So you prefer a despotic oppressor in control of your life then ? :lol:
I do prefer a benevolent Theocracy with an honorable Monarchy.

The greatest ideal is the "Kingdom of God" on earth as it is in Heaven.

A democracy where the immoral rabble votes on important subjects is extremely dangerous, and democracy is always doomed to ultimate failure.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

I do prefer a benevolent Theocracy with an honorable Monarchy.

The greatest ideal is the "Kingdom of God" on earth as it is in Heaven.

So basically just another religious nut then. Thanks for stopping by and good luck with that approach with the Russians :roll:
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

So basically just another religious nut then. Thanks for stopping by and good luck with that approach with the Russians :roll:

No ****, isn't that kinda what the Islamic State wants, no thanks.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Ukraine should agree to cultural autonomy to all areas with a Russian majority.

Similar to what Crimea had before the Russian anschluss.

But all Russian personnel and military equipment must go back to Russia.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Ukraine should agree to cultural autonomy to all areas with a Russian majority.

Similar to what Crimea had before the Russian anschluss.

But all Russian personnel and military equipment must go back to Russia.

I think that a splendid climax to this unnecessary conflict.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Ukraine should agree to cultural autonomy to all areas with a Russian majority.

Similar to what Crimea had before the Russian anschluss.

But all Russian personnel and military equipment must go back to Russia.

The problem is the Donetsk and Luhansk areas in conflict do not have a Russian majority. Its at around 38% with Ukrainians being by far the largest ethnic group
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Better get used to it. My bet is that Russia will not allow the west to set up camp in their back yard.

As they've been saying since 2005.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Having visited Ukraine many times and listened to their views I'm VERY confident of that

As have I and the divide has always been the Dnieper and even parts of Odessa in which Soviets hold high regard to the general populace because of what they did to protect the city during WW2. So it's not as clear cut as you say. Western Ukraine (West of the Dnierper) is highly anti-Russian but again these were the folks who joined the Nazi army as well especially those in Galicia area of Ukraine.
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Simpleχity;1064288345 said:
If you want to go back in history, Moscow is situated on land that was originally Ukrainian.

Do you have anything... contemporary?


Dude your history is not even correct. Rurik Dynasty ruled the area. Rurik Dynasty was started with Rurik in the 9th century when Novgorod existed. Ivan III of Russia and Ivan the Terrible expanded and combined family lands.

What you are telling people is akin to a British person telling me that the House of Windsor is NOT German. Despite the fact King George VII (Queen Victoria) being from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha of the House of Wettin.
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

As have I and the divide has always been the Dnieper and even parts of Odessa in which Soviets hold high regard to the general populace because of what they did to protect the city during WW2. So it's not as clear cut as you say. Western Ukraine (West of the Dnierper) is highly anti-Russian but again these were the folks who joined the Nazi army as well especially those in Galicia area of Ukraine.

Having visited places in Eastern Ukraine too I'm certain that the only way Putin can achieve his aim is to divide and conquer. He cannot win any referendum in the disputed areas because unlike with Crimea the math of ethnic demographic works against him. The best he can hope for is to keep Ukraine politically and militarily destabilised, keeping it out of the EU and NATO as long as he can. It may also be that he wants to force as many ethnic Ukrainians out of the region as possible thereby permanently changing the numerical balance of what was once an unfavourable demographic. Obviously this gameplan will require much time in order to be realised
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Dude your history is not even correct. Rurik Dynasty ruled the area.
Dude, I suggest you look up the Kievan Rus Empire.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

So basically just another religious nut then. Thanks for stopping by and good luck with that approach with the Russians :roll:
I am not trying to impose anything onto Russia, and you (and the USA) are making a big mistake in trying to impose anything onto Russia.

We the USA are the ones trying to impose our self where we have no right and no business - as in the Ukraine.

And if I am the "religious nut" who is trying to tell Americans to make peace - then what does that make you?

Answer = It makes you into a warmonger, and we all would be much better off if all you warmongers would grow some morality and proper restraint.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

I am not trying to impose anything onto Russia, and you (and the USA) are making a big mistake in trying to impose anything onto Russia.

What is it we are supposed to be imposing on Russia then ?

We the USA are the ones trying to impose our self where we have no right and no business - as in the Ukraine.

Its not the US who's troops is it are in someone elses country annexing chunks of it for themselves ? :roll:

And if I am the "religious nut" who is trying to tell Americans to make peace - then what does that make you?
Answer = It makes you into a warmonger, and we all would be much better off if all you warmongers would grow some morality and proper restraint.

Appeasement has been tried once before. It didn't turn out well
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

What is it we are supposed to be imposing on Russia then ?



Its not the US who's troops is it are in someone elses country annexing chunks of it for themselves ? :roll:



Appeasement has been tried once before. It didn't turn out well

Well, to your first question, nothing.

To your second point, the US has a history of fighting wars, winning, and then annexing territory, more recently, it's done more covertly, with special ops leaving little or no foot prints, and removing after objectives have been made. Again, imperialism is far broader than real estate acquisition alone.

And thirdly, I have never heard anybody argue in favor of appeasing wrong doing. And pressing for non provocative policies beforehand, is not appeasement.

Fourteen years of fighting in the ME has produced (besides the wasteful loss of our own blood and treasure) a sharp increase in terroristic activity and made us less safe. And you want to put more muscle behind it.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

To your second point, the US has a history of fighting wars, winning, and then annexing territory, more recently, it's done more covertly, with special ops leaving little or no foot prints, and removing after objectives have been made. Again, imperialism is far broader than real estate acquisition alone.

What has this to do with what Russia is up to in Ukraine ?

And thirdly, I have never heard anybody argue in favor of appeasing wrong doing.

The earlier poster certainly gave a good impression of doing so then

And pressing for non provocative policies beforehand, is not appeasement.
What about what Ukraine wants ? What if she proactively wants to be part of the EU and NATO ?

Fourteen years of fighting in the ME has produced (besides the wasteful loss of our own blood and treasure) a sharp increase in terroristic activity and made us less safe. And you want to put more muscle behind it.

The ME has nothing to do with this conflict
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Wrong again and still. Let me be the one to articulate my own argument, hear? I'm pointing to the hypocrisy of the US (and YOU) for accusing Russia of using military force to advance their interests when there's no end to the examples of the US doing the same, and not always overtly!

You fail to comprehend what hypocrisy is.
And Putin did invade the Ukraine with soldiers who had removed their insignia and he denied this for weeks, until he had full control then he finally admitted it.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

You and the rest of the patronising posters may characterise exposing wrong doing as "putting down" but that is candid deflection!
If you care about exposing wrong doing then why are you not Lambasting Putin?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

To your second point, the US has a history of fighting wars, winning, and then annexing territory, more recently, it's done more covertly, with special ops leaving little or no foot prints, and removing after objectives have been made. Again, imperialism is far broader than real estate acquisition alone.
What exactly has the US annexed in the past 100 years?
 
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