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U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Putin has made his intentions clear, there is no conspiracy about it.

If you're referring to Putin providing aid to Russian separatists that would advance Russian interests on their border, then I would submit to you that that is precisely what the US has done all over the world for decades now!!!! So spare us the moral high ground argument, its rubbish.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Putin May Be On The Verge Of Victory in Ukraine

Ukraine is losing militarily and collapsing economically, and the West’s response is more divided than ever


The optimists would call it another iteration of the Good Cop-Bad Cop strategy that the U.S. and European Union have sometimes tries to use to contain Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ambitions in Ukraine.

But the reality is much harsher. As Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President François Hollande fly into Moscow for peace talks Friday, the weakness of their hand is clear: the only thing collapsing faster than the front line in Ukraine’s disputed eastern provinces is its economy, and Europe’s major powers are in no rush to prop up either.

Meanwhile, the hryvnia, Ukraine’s currency, lost nearly half its value against the dollar Thursday as the central bank was forced to stop supporting it, having nearly exhausted its foreign reserves.

Ukraine’s economy shrunk by 6.7% last year, due largely to the loss of Crimea and the devastation of the Donetsk region, home to much of the country’s industry. It’s forecast to shrink another 4% this year, and the International Monetary Fund reckons it needs at least $15 billion to avoid bankruptcy. That funding gap makes a nonsense of the IMF’s existing $17 billion program.

By contrast, Russia’s economy and financial markets are starting to sense that the worst may be over for them, encouraged by the rebound in crude oil prices and by an enthusiastic reception from foreign investors for a $150 million stock offering by supermarket chain OAO Magnit earlier in the week. Domestic political support for Putin has also stayed strong, despite the face that inflation rose to 15.9% in January, its highest level in 16 years.

The ruble has stabilized over the last week, and the benchmark RTS stock index was up 2.4% Friday as hopes for a favorable deal rose.

Putin May Be On The Verge Of Victory in Ukraine
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

If you're referring to Putin providing aid to Russian separatists that would advance Russian interests on their border, then I would submit to you that that is precisely what the US has done all over the world for decades now!!!! So spare us the moral high ground argument, its rubbish.

1. I am not American so no moral high ground crap from you.
2. When and where did/is the US providing aid to people wishing to have part of their county annexed to the USA?
3. Putin is not only supplying aid he is using Russian troops.
4. Putin created the whole crisis
5. Spouting Putin BS talking points gives you 0 credibility
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Putin May Be On The Verge Of Victory in Ukraine

Ukraine is losing militarily and collapsing economically, and the West’s response is more divided than ever

Sadly, this may well be true. Though this last offensive clearly did not work to the extent that Putin forecasted, he can easily try again, and again. Ukriane probably cannot defend again, and again.

If so, things are really going to get costly as I dont Putin is going to stop in the Donbas. Rather, if he wins there, he is going to use the same "receipe for success" in Karkhov, Odessa and Kiev. Ukraine will go down fighting and then things could really get out of control if Poland, a NATO member, decides to assist Ukraine on their own.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Poland is a junior member of NATO family. It doesn't decide anything on their own.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

1. I am not American so no moral high ground crap from you.
2. When and where did/is the US providing aid to people wishing to have part of their county annexed to the USA?
3. Putin is not only supplying aid he is using Russian troops.
4. Putin created the whole crisis
5. Spouting Putin BS talking points gives you 0 credibility

Where's your credentials dude??
The US provides aid both lethal and non lethal to organisations in any number of countries around the world to advance US interests.
Hawaii is one such place the US annexed.
Much of the southwestern US was annexed from Mexico after we kicked their ass and forced them to sue for piece signing the treaty of Hidalgo.
What is your country of origin, and if your not an American, why are you such an advocate for US interventions.
Suppose you lobby your own government to confront Putin, or anybody else that you don't take a liking to???????
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Where's your credentials dude??
Anyoen who isnt a Putin lackey like yourself is credible in comparison.
The US provides aid both lethal and non lethal to organisations in any number of countries around the world to advance US interests.
2 wrongs dont make a right. Pathetic argument.
Hawaii is one such place the US annexed.
Much of the southwestern US was annexed from Mexico after we kicked their ass and forced them to sue for piece signing the treaty of Hidalgo.
So nothing current then?
What is your country of origin, and if your not an American, why are you such an advocate for US interventions.
I am not advocating US intervention I am advocating that the scum bag Putin whose a** you kiss get the hell out of Ukraine.
Suppose you lobby your own government to confront Putin, or anybody else that you don't take a liking to???????
Putin isn an evil dictator that is compeltely responsible for the mess in Ukraine he orchestrated it from the start when he tried top buy their govt. When that failed he resorted to the military soplution. Apparently Putinistas like youself think that is Ok and will defend his right to invade otthers till then end of time.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Anyoen who isnt a Putin lackey like yourself is credible in comparison.

2 wrongs dont make a right. Pathetic argument.

So nothing current then?

I am not advocating US intervention I am advocating that the scum bag Putin whose a** you kiss get the hell out of Ukraine.

Putin isn an evil dictator that is compeltely responsible for the mess in Ukraine he orchestrated it from the start when he tried top buy their govt. When that failed he resorted to the military soplution. Apparently Putinistas like youself think that is Ok and will defend his right to invade otthers till then end of time.

I can't quite figure out whether MonteCresto is a Putin fanboy or he just hates his own country so much that anybody -including ISIS - that appears to be anti-American automatically gets his support. I think it's probably a combination of the two.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

I can't quite figure out whether MonteCresto is a Putin fanboy or he just hates his own country so much that anybody -including ISIS - that appears to be anti-American automatically gets his support. I think it's probably a combination of the two.

Starting to think the 2nd is the stronger of the 2 forces.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Starting to think the 2nd is the stronger of the 2 forces.

Lol. That makes you both wrong then. So, where is your allegiance? Why are you dismissive of US annexations?? That's peculiar. And sorry, but Putin doesn't give a **** what you think. Not unlike any other country would do, he's looking out for Russia's interests. And you righties always make a right out of two wrongs.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

That is correct if Russia ever wanted to reclaim Alaska THEN then at that time the USA would have a legitimate reason to get involved.

As it is in the Ukraine the USA has no business with interfering there.


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The Eastern side has long history as Russian territory along with the people speaking Russian and belonging to the Orthodox Church and traditions which make the Eastern Ukraine and the Crimea as being a part of Russia.

I realize that the USA has been pressuring and bribing the former Soviet Republics into joining the Western alliance and NATO which meant that the USA was instigating the hostilities with Russia and now that hostility has blossomed.

Honestly I believe that if our USA's petty efforts were to succeed then Russia would launch a first strike against us - and rightly so.

Fortunately for me is that I feel much safer by knowing our fate rest in the competent hands of their President Putin instead of the worries I have from our own American war mongers getting us all killed.

lol the ukraine including the crimea is an internationally recognized sovereign state and putin is an internationally recognized war criminal.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

....unlike our drone-loving President, a recognized Peace Prize recipient.

Yes, truth is stranger than fiction. :roll:
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

....unlike our drone-loving President, a recognized Peace Prize recipient. Yes, truth is stranger than fiction. :roll:
Let us know when Mr. Obama invades and annexes foreign territory.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Lol. That makes you both wrong then. So, where is your allegiance? Why are you dismissive of US annexations?? That's peculiar. And sorry, but Putin doesn't give a **** what you think. Not unlike any other country would do, he's looking out for Russia's interests. And you righties always make a right out of two wrongs.

The US in recent history hasn't annexed anything.
I agree Putin doesn't give a crap what I think, megalomaniacs don't tend to concern themselves with others.
Most countries don't secretly invade and annex parts of other countries. Occasionally they openly invade and annex parts but we are striving for a world that no longer does this.
When have I said 2 wrongs MAKE a right? Nope that would be your argument.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

lol the ukraine including the crimea is an internationally recognized sovereign state and putin is an internationally recognized war criminal.
If we let the Western propaganda define reality then that would be accurate, but when we judge the reality based on truth and justice then it is not.

I certainly view President Putin as a brilliant diplomat and strategist and Leader.

The reason that we are still safe and alive here in the USA is because President Putin does not call our pretentious bluff and defy our petty bullying.

Our own American government makes us here in the USA unsafe and insecure, so thank God that President Putin is protecting us from our own folly.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

The US in recent history hasn't annexed anything.
I agree Putin doesn't give a crap what I think, megalomaniacs don't tend to concern themselves with others.
Most countries don't secretly invade and annex parts of other countries. Occasionally they openly invade and annex parts but we are striving for a world that no longer does this.
When have I said 2 wrongs MAKE a right? Nope that would be your argument.

Imperialism has broad meanings, look it up, imperialistic actions don't necessitate, but certainly include, physical occupation, an imperialisticly powerful US has forced its will upon weaker nations the world over for a plethora of reasons, but resources exploitation has been chief amongst them.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

lol the ukraine including the crimea is an internationally recognized sovereign state and putin is an internationally recognized war criminal.

Right, every time ten Western nations get together and make a declaration, it's international in its authority, because we all know that when they pull their pants on in the morning, the whole worlds dressed.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Simpleχity;1064285703 said:
Let us know when Mr. Obama invades and annexes foreign territory.

Foreign territory? Strange glasses you wear.

The other side of a river is a foreign territory?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

The reason that we are still safe and alive here in the USA is because President Putin does not call our pretentious bluff and defy our petty bullying.

Our petty bullying? We weren't the ones who walked into Crimea, said "It's ours", held a globally-unrecognized referendum to make it official and then started sending weapons to our ethnic cousins next door to start a ****storm.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Foreign territory? Strange glasses you wear.

The other side of a river is a foreign territory?
If you want to go back in history, Moscow is situated on land that was originally Ukrainian.

Do you have anything... contemporary?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Imperialism has broad meanings, look it up, imperialistic actions don't necessitate, but certainly include, physical occupation, an imperialisticly powerful US has forced its will upon weaker nations the world over for a plethora of reasons, but resources exploitation has been chief amongst them.

So because the US has used its power to influence others it is OK for Putin to secretly invade and annex part of another country?
Not only are you comparing apples to oranges you continually are making the horrible 2 wrongs make a right argument.
Unfortunately 2 wrongs do not make a right and what Putin is doing is wrong no matter how you look at it.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Our petty bullying? We weren't the ones who walked into Crimea, said "It's ours", held a globally-unrecognized referendum to make it official and then started sending weapons to our ethnic cousins next door to start a ****storm.

Once again: that would be extremely strange as you have absolutely nothing to do with Crimea.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

If we let the Western propaganda define reality then that would be accurate, but when we judge the reality based on truth and justice then it is not.

Western propaganda ? So is Russia's state controlled media better ?

I certainly view President Putin as a brilliant diplomat and strategist and Leader

No you just like supporting anybody doing things you believe are contrary to western or more importantly US interests. You don't care squat about the people who are actually suffering through this

The reason that we are still safe and alive here in the USA is because President Putin does not call our pretentious bluff and defy our petty bullying.

What petty bullying would that be Mr Chamberlain ?

Our own American government makes us here in the USA unsafe and insecure, so thank God that President Putin is protecting us from our own folly.

So you prefer a despotic oppressor in control of your life then ? :lol:
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

So because the US has used its power to influence others it is OK for Putin to secretly invade and annex part of another country?
Not only are you comparing apples to oranges you continually are making the horrible 2 wrongs make a right argument.
Unfortunately 2 wrongs do not make a right and what Putin is doing is wrong no matter how you look at it.

What is with your insistence that something the whole world has observed is "secret"????? And, I'm not making the argument that two wrongs are equal to one right. Remember, I'm the one that's arguing that what Putin is doing isn't wrong. Follow my argument dude. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of yourself and others that are accusing Putin of something that the US has done countless times, which is to use our military to force our will, if we think its in our interest to do so, regardless of the consequences.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

What is with your insistence that something the whole world has observed is "secret"????? And, I'm not making the argument that two wrongs are equal to one right. Remember, I'm the one that's arguing that what Putin is doing isn't wrong. Follow my argument dude. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of yourself and others that are accusing Putin of something that the US has done countless times, which is to use our military to force our will, if we think its in our interest to do so, regardless of the consequences.

Putin invaded Ukraine with soldiers who had removed the insignia from their uniforms and denied that Russian troops were there until well after he had taken control, that Is why he secretly invaded.
You are arguing that what Putin is doing is Ok because the USA does it. That is the classic two wrongs make a right argument and it is wrong.
As to hypocrisy you best find a dictionary and read what it means, because I have not said the USA is ok if they do the same as Putin. In fact I have said the opposite.
 
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