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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    The only thing that truly matters is how the crisis began and that beginning remains constant so the beginning is the FACT.

    Everything that happened after the beginning of the crisis is just the consequence of the beginning.
    Indeed . If only Russia hadn't tried to subvert Ukraine in the first place

    So your rebuttals are invalid and the USA was instrumental in creating the hostilities in the Ukraine and that past history is the never changing FACT.
    It wasn't

    The ends do not justify the means, so what came after it started is just the after-effects.
    Putin seems to disagree

    The USA persuaded the Ukraine to act foolishly and then Russia responded accordingly.
    It is not right to blame Russia for what the USA instigated.
    I'm not I'm blaming Russia for what Russia instigated. You've been shown NATO's position in all this so theres little more I can add. You'll believe what you want to believe whatever you get shown

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    The only thing that truly matters is how the crisis began and that beginning remains constant so the beginning is the FACT.

    Everything that happened after the beginning of the crisis is just the consequence of the beginning.

    So your rebuttals are invalid and the USA was instrumental in creating the hostilities in the Ukraine and that past history is the never changing FACT.

    The ends do not justify the means, so what came after it started is just the after-effects.

    The USA persuaded the Ukraine to act foolishly and then Russia responded accordingly.

    It is not right to blame Russia for what the USA instigated.
    The Russians now know what Native American tribes learned many years ago--the US government is notorious for its lies and failure to live up to its word.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    The Russians now know what Native American tribes learned many years ago--the US government is notorious for its lies and failure to live up to its word.
    And all nations and people's are capable of the same, and in fact so many have. The thing here is that, Americans particularly, masquerade as the benevolent ones, the "shinning city on a hill" the defenders and promoters of democracy, the ones ever concerned with human rights, and self determination, lol. Except when we're not. If we didn't have a history of atrocities of our own, then there would be at least a level of legitimacy pointing at one country or another with the ever judgmental finger.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Perhaps a statement of international legalities might be in order here

    According to Article I of the Helsinki Final Act which established the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in 1975, every country has the right "to belong or not to belong to international organizations, to be or not to be a party to bilateral or multilateral treaties including the right to be or not to be a party to treaties of alliance." All the OSCE member states, including Russia, have sworn to uphold those principles.

    In line with those principles, Ukraine has the right to choose for itself whether it joins any treaty of alliance, including NATO's founding treaty.

    Moreover, when Russia signed the Founding Act, it pledged to uphold "respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security".

    Thus Ukraine has the right to choose its own alliances, and Russia has, by its own repeated agreement, no right to dictate that choice.


    Helsinki Final Act | OSCE

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    The Russians now know what Native American tribes learned many years ago--the US government is notorious for its lies and failure to live up to its word.
    Lets not forget that the USA attacked Vietnam based on lies, and we invaded Iraq based on more lies, and what we are doing in Syria is more lies, and the crisis in the Ukraine is based on American lies.

    I say that we can be very certain that Russia will not be fooled by our continuing lies.



    =============================================



    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Perhaps a statement of international legalities might be in order here

    According to Article I of the Helsinki Final Act which established the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in 1975, every country has the right "to belong or not to belong to international organizations, to be or not to be a party to bilateral or multilateral treaties including the right to be or not to be a party to treaties of alliance." All the OSCE member states, including Russia, have sworn to uphold those principles.

    In line with those principles, Ukraine has the right to choose for itself whether it joins any treaty of alliance, including NATO's founding treaty.

    Moreover, when Russia signed the Founding Act, it pledged to uphold "respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security".

    Thus Ukraine has the right to choose its own alliances, and Russia has, by its own repeated agreement, no right to dictate that choice.


    Helsinki Final Act | OSCE
    Well that is your opinion, or your interpretation of the treaty.

    So why not send a letter over to the Ukraine and tell them to go ahead as they have every right, and forget about Russia as Russia does not have the right. Ha ha ha.

    Russia has voiced its objection in a very matter-of-fact way so the Russian opinion and interpretation is the one which over rules.

    The USA had better start hoping that Russia does not turn their reality against us because their business is not our business.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    SIGNATURE: JP Cusick
    Mr. Know-it-all, sir.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Well that is your opinion, or your interpretation of the treaty.
    No thats what the treaty says period. I've linked it so you have no excuse for misinterpreting it

    So why not send a letter over to the Ukraine and tell them to go ahead as they have every right, and forget about Russia as Russia does not have the right. Ha ha ha.
    As a treaty signatory that is indeed correct. The right to national self determination is enshrined in this treaty

    Russia has voiced its objection in a very matter-of-fact way so the Russian opinion and interpretation is the one which over rules.
    As a treaty signatory Russia is bound by its stipulations

    The USA had better start hoping that Russia does not turn their reality against us because their business is not our business.
    Thankfully the rest of the world does not inhabit the pathologically anti American universe which you do

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    The Russians now know what Native American tribes learned many years ago--the US government is notorious for its lies and failure to live up to its word.
    Now its invoking crimes against native American tribes eh ? Why not just go the whole hog and blame Christopher Columbus for everything !

    I've heard Ivan the Terrible was not a very nice guy which must explain Russia's actions today too right ?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Your geography is slightly confused--we invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq, not Crimea. We conduct drone strikes in numerous places around the globe. That is not seeking peace in any way at all, it is committing military aggression.
    We invaded Afghanistan because of the Taliban and Al-Queda.
    We invaded Iraq under the concern of WMD
    We use drone strikes to kill terrorists.

    Care to try again?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    Except that Russia participated in the peace talks,

    and Russia made agreements to help bring peace to the area,

    while the USA refused to participate in any such talk of peace.
    Russia may have participated in the peace talks and signed a cease fire, but they didn't tell the terrorists they are supporting to stop shooting.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    NATO CHOSE to expand to Russian border.
    You're partially wrong.

    NATO only expanded towards Russia because other countries voluntarily joined NATO.

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