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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    NATO CHOSE to expand to Russian border.
    No those countries asked to join NATO due clearly very legitimate security concerns. The alliance was not imposed upon them. Theres a difference
    Last edited by flogger; 02-26-15 at 04:07 AM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    No, I said I understood why.
    I understand why he did it too that doesn't mean I give his motives the slightest legitimacy

    So you are telling me.. Ukraine gets EU membership, NATO membership and you think they would have honored the deal?
    Why wouldn't they given they already had for nearly two decades and were making good money out of it ?

    Once you get membership you are golden and can tell Russia to bugger off.
    EU membership was what was on the table not NATO membership. Once again I ask. What about what Ukraine wants (especially after what she is being subjected to today) or don't her obviously legitimate security concerns matter ?
    Last edited by flogger; 02-26-15 at 04:25 AM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    No those countries asked to join NATO due clearly very legitimate security concerns. The alliance was not imposed upon them. Theres a difference
    And NATO chose to expand there. But you don't see that.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Why wouldn't they given they already had for nearly two decades and were making good money out of it ?
    You think Ukraine made money out of that lease? How about you read that treaty again.. Russia would sell natural gas/oil at a reduced cost for use of Crimea. Ukraine had to pay Russia for the natural gas/oil.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    NATO CHOSE to expand to Russian border.
    True. And the canard that "these countries asked to join" should have been met with, "we're sorry, but we have agreements that prevent that eventuality". It's a disingenuous assertion.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    And NATO chose to expand there. But you don't see that.
    NATO couldn't have expanded there were it not actually asked to by the nations concerned . But you don't want to see that

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    You think Ukraine made money out of that lease? How about you read that treaty again.. Russia would sell natural gas/oil at a reduced cost for use of Crimea. Ukraine had to pay Russia for the natural gas/oil.
    Ergo Ukraine by saving money ultimately profited out of it so why would they want to disrupt such a mutually beneficial arrangement ?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    True. And the canard that "these countries asked to join" should have been met with, "we're sorry, but we have agreements that prevent that eventuality". It's a disingenuous assertion.
    I think its high time that NATO's position be heard for a change and these ongoing mythologies addressed. Here is a comprehensive list of rebuttals to Russia's claims

    http://www.nato.int/cps/eu/natohq/topics_111767.htm

    I might add further to that, in that you cannot be claimed to be threatening anybody by halving your armed forces and dramatically reducing defence expenditures over the last 25 years. Russia has done the opposite so who is it that is threatening who ?
    Last edited by flogger; 02-26-15 at 07:00 AM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Ergo Ukraine by saving money ultimately profited out of it so why would they want to disrupt such a mutually beneficial arrangement ?
    They aren't profiting and the only way they can profit is by increasing prices on Ukrainians. That doesn't sit well to the local populace. Ergo, revolutions and riots.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    They aren't profiting and the only way they can profit is by increasing prices on Ukrainians. That doesn't sit well to the local populace. Ergo, revolutions and riots.
    Absolute nonsense. I notice you've dodged my question on Ukrainian security concerns again

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