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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    So, what's your point?

    Fallen gave you links, if you know Russian as you said, you can read it. What's your opinion? Are they state propaganda?
    My links made my point for me.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    Sigh.

    The sites I listed are active, very liberal and critic Putin on a daily if not hourly basis.

    Fallen.
    Lip service critique for the international viewers while Putin ass licking behind close doors would not do.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Via Stalin in particular and communism in general?



    The Russians were accepting of an independent Ukraine, they were not empowering though. Following the Break up of the USSR, Russia envisioned the Slavic three (Russia, Ukraine and Belarus) plus Kazakhstan (at the time 50% slavic and german) orgainized into a sort of Confederation of Autonomous States.

    Ukraine, however, rejected the proposal out right and also demanded that the Black Sea fleet be divided between them equally. At the time, Russia had no economic, military or political leverage to keep Ukraine in a confederation, so they let them go. According to the Russians, Ukraine saying "no" also led to Belarus and Kazakhstan to say "no" as well. The Russians have not forgiven them for this and today, they have military leverage over Ukraine, so they are using it.
    The Russians accepted an independent Ukraine COMBINED WITH an empty verbal promise from the US that it would remain independent and not become a satellite of NATO.

    I'm sure the Russians are kicking themselves in the arse for having believed the US government. They have now learned the lessons the Native American Tribes all learned in previous centuries--the US government goes back on its word as a matter of routine.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    My links made my point for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Lip service critique for the international viewers while Putin ass licking behind close doors would not do.
    What does that even mean?!?

    There are actual liberal media outlets in Russia, they work in very harsh conditions but they still exist.
    To simply brush them off is basically equivalent to spitting into the faces of dozens and hundreds of journalists that often risk their lives to cover Russia's current political and social life.

    Fallen.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    What does that even mean?!?

    There are actual liberal media outlets in Russia, they work in very harsh conditions but they still exist.
    To simply brush them off is basically equivalent to spitting into the faces of dozens and hundreds of journalists that often risk their lives to cover Russia's current political and social life.

    Fallen.
    But if these journalists "risk their lives" while not admitting that Russia is slowly occupying Ukraine, then they only appear as "liberal media" when in fact they are just pretending to be one.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    But if these journalists "risk their lives" while not admitting that Russia is slowly occupying Ukraine, then they only appear as "liberal media" when in fact they are just pretending to be one.
    What are you talking about?!?

    Russian liberal media constantly talks against Russia's intervention in Ukraine, looks for supposed "Russian soldiers' graves", Russian bloggers were one of the first ones to sight and talk about T72B3, BTR82AM, etc in Ukraine, so on and on.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post

    If America doubts the resolve of Russia in the Ukraine then we are playing a fool who could get us all killed in lightning speed.
    WTF ...... Yes we can see that Russia is hell bent on dominating the Ukrainians. And you are high if you think that Russia can kill us much less at light speed.

    Perhaps you should move to Russia (lol you probably already live there).

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Again Irrespective of the US or Russia. What if Ukrainians actively want to be part of Western institutions of their own free will which they surely will now in the wake of Russias aggression ?

    What then ?
    There is no such thing in this case of any "irrespective of the US or Russia."

    The Ukraine would have to be insane to be irrespective of the USA or of Russia.

    And I totally disagree that the Ukraine would now be against Russia based on Russian aggression as that too would be insane.

    But for a direct answer then "no" the Ukraine has no free will to be hostile with its huge neighbor Russia, and the Ukraine has no free will to align itself to the hostile warmonger nation of the USA against Russia.

    It would be like a small town neighborhood where the next door neighbor wants to bring in a violent child molester and expect all their neighbors to accept it as their free will - well no.


    =============================================


    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    So powerful that the ruble is virtually a worthless currency beyond the Russian borders...

    Ruble Sinks to Six-Week Low After S&P Downgrades Russia to Junk
    Not everyone knows this but the USA has orchestrated the fall of oil prices as a way of hurting Russia because of the Ukraine.

    It is a clever tactic perhaps, but it is failing to remember the lessons of history, in that the USA put such embargoes on Japan in the 1930's and then Japan finally sought its own relief by attacking Pearl Harbor in December 1941 and thereby declaring war on the USA.

    So if we really succeed and push mighty Russia into such a corner then we are risking everything based on our own warped political agendas.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    SIGNATURE: JP Cusick
    Mr. Know-it-all, sir.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    There is no such thing in this case of any "irrespective of the US or Russia."
    Of course there is ! So basically you are denying 58 million Ukrainians right to self determination then. How noble

    The Ukraine would have to be insane to be irrespective of the USA or of Russia.
    No she would just have to disagree with you

    And I totally disagree that the Ukraine would now be against Russia based on Russian aggression as that too would be insane.
    Well I think it would be 'insane' for it to be anything else. A point that would be blatantly obvious to any objective observer of events

    But for a direct answer then "no" the Ukraine has no free will to be hostile with its huge neighbor Russia
    When did Ukraine initiate hostlities with Russia ? Are Ukrainian troops on Russian territory ?

    , and the Ukraine has no free will to align itself to the hostile warmonger nation of the USA against Russia.
    The Ukraine has the free will to align herself with whoever she wishes irrespective of your desires

    It would be like a small town neighborhood where the next door neighbor wants to bring in a violent child molester and expect all their neighbors to accept it as their free will - well no.
    Or like a country exercising its free will. Ever imagine for a moment that maybe everyone isn't quite as xenophobic as you ?
    Last edited by flogger; 01-27-15 at 11:12 AM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    The Russians accepted an independent Ukraine COMBINED WITH an empty verbal promise from the US that it would remain independent and not become a satellite of NATO.

    I'm sure the Russians are kicking themselves in the arse for having believed the US government. They have now learned the lessons the Native American Tribes all learned in previous centuries--the US government goes back on its word as a matter of routine.
    Sure, once Russia not only annexed Crimea (arguably Russian to begin with, and should be a seperate issue from Donbass), but then moved on Donbass, it is not surprising that Ukraine, a nation of 45 million facing territorial losses to a nation of 145 million people (Russia) went looking for allies like NATO. I dont blame them.

    Your reference to an "independent Ukraine" is very accurate. Russia's goal is not the occupation of two rust belt provinces. Rather, Putin's goal is to turn Ukraine into a Russian protectorate. Ukraine needs to fight in the Donbass, because of they dont, the same combination of "little green men", volunteers, mercenaries and vacationing Russian regulars is going to be in Kiev by late spring. The only way for Ukraine to stay independent is to fight in the Donbass now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Infowars has a short clip from Ukraine, and a fast walking soldier in a Ukranian uniform speaks American English to the reporter, asking her to 'stay out of my face, please'. Probably just a Blackwater mercenary, but certainly an American carrying an AK.
    Or, maybe just an Ukrainian American volunteer. One Ukrainian American West Point graduate was killed fighting as an ordianry infantryman in a volunteer batallion.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 01-27-15 at 11:32 AM.

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