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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Desperate BS . Did you even read this ? This is a business contract to renovate and repair a Sevastopol school roof ! This is your definitive evidence !
    Yes, I flat out told you it was about schools in Crimea. US Navy doesn't do charity when it comes to it's budget. US Navy tendering for construction work in Sevastopol is a clear sign what the US Navy wanted.. they wanted Sevastopol for the US Navy and the only way that was gonna happen is if Ukraine ended it's agreement with Russia and Ukraine joined NATO. Welcome to what this is all about. It's why NATO countries like the US encouraged the likes of Ukraine and Georgia who ended up pissing off Russia just a bit too much and Georgia and Mikheil Saakashvili ended up getting smacked down and not a NATO country insight helping them. Georgia wasn't a NATO country and NATO backed off massively on adding them.

    Yet people are surprised on why Russia has issues with NATO/EU and their encouragement of Ukraine to join them.. when the biggest douche bag in the world Mikheil Saakashvili is working for the Ukrainian Government. The man is wanted in Georgia for war crimes.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 02-24-15 at 02:47 AM.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Except for the fact that this was not just about to happen you might have had a point
    If Ukraine went to the West and got NATO status, Russia loses Crimean ports and by the point it would have been an act of aggression on a future NATO member making it a MUCH bigger deal. So Russia decided to get ahead of the issue. Why can't you see or even understand.. Russia did the only thing it could to preserve those ports for their fleet in which NATO couldn't do **** about.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Yes, I flat out told you it was about schools in Crimea. US Navy doesn't do charity when it comes to it's budget.
    Really ? This is part of the EUCOM Humanitarian assistance programme and involves all arms of the federal government

    Past projects have included:

    Flood relief in Poland, Serbia, Albania and Moldova
    Water pumps in Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Romania
    44 school renovations
    28 hospital/clinic renovations and equipment upgrades
    33 emergency services/water related upgrades

    US Navy tendering for construction work in Sevastopol is a clear sign what the US Navy wanted.. they wanted Sevastopol for the US Navy and the only way that was gonna happen is if Ukraine ended it's agreement with Russia and Ukraine joined NATO.
    But Ukraine wasn't just about to do that and had abandoned all pretense of joining in 2010 and 2 years after your long redundant article. Putin certainly knew this too so you can't somehow use it as an excuse for Russian aggression today. Perhaps you should get yourself up to date

    Ukraine drops 'unrealistic' plans for Nato membership | World news | The Guardian

    Yet people are surprised on why Russia has issues with NATO/EU and their encouragement of Ukraine to join them.
    And with hindsight its a great pity for them that they didn't because 5000+ Ukrainians would still be alive today
    Last edited by flogger; 02-24-15 at 06:21 AM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    If Ukraine went to the West and got NATO status
    But the Ukraine wasn't joining NATO but the EU trading group as has been explained multiple times

    Russia loses Crimean ports and by the point it would have been an act of aggression on a future NATO member making it a MUCH bigger deal.
    I seriously doubt that EU membership would have had any effect whatsoever on the Status of Russias Black Sea base. As the earlier linked Kharkiv accords illustrated she had the lease till at least 2042 and beyond

    So Russia decided to get ahead of the issue. Why can't you see or even understand.. Russia did the only thing it could to preserve those ports for their fleet in which NATO couldn't do **** about
    This is a load of conspiracy theory baloney that bears little relation fact

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Only because your lack knowledge when it comes to US/Cuba relations. US seized Guantanamo during the Spanish-American War and only agreed to leave the rest of Cuba if The Platt Amendment was agreed too. The agreement gave the US the right to invoke the right to invade if there is any social uprest. A few years later (1906) when the threat of the loss of Guantanamo became a possibility after the pro-American President Tomás Estrada Palma regime fell, US invaded Cuba for a second time and occupied Cuba for 3 years. During that period Sec of War William H. Taft was named Provisional Governor of Cuba per Platt Amendment. US occupied Cuba several times from 1902-1922. Then in 1933 US supported the overthrow of Gerardo Machado and ended up with Ramon Grau who told the US to bugger off and tore up the Platt Amendment. US then backed Fulgencio Batista who became a dictator and pissed off enough people that lead to the rise of the Castros.

    Guantanamo today is part of a lease. US pays Cuba money for the land and usage for the base ever year. Cuba doesn't accept payments so it sits in a bank account at treasury. Cuba also has guarantee from the US that US will not invade Cuba if the lease is not extended in the future (agreement during Cuba Missile Crisis). At some point Guantanamo will be back in Cuban hands as the US is actually using Gitmo in violation of agreed terms.

    US itself couldn't legally annex Cuba in 1902 because US Congress said no. Russia on the other hand doesn't mind annexing what was once Russian land. I am not saying Russia didn't "invade" or annexed Crimea, I am just telling you this is NO different then what the US has done several times.
    I know the history of Guantanamo and it changes nothing, the twisted logic used by those who support Putin`s aggresion could easily be applied to the USA invading and annexing Cuba, there is no difference.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Absolutely. The hypocrisy of the west here is quiet large. Will the US give Gitmo back? Of course not because the US still sees it as vital to National interests.. Russia was pro active in protecting it's rights in the Black Sea because Russia sees Crimea as vital to their national interests. Can't be any clear then that. You can't expect anybody to just write off their national interest without a fight.
    Two wrongs do not make a right!
    How far do we stop going back in deciding national borders? 1945? 1939? 1918? 1914? those would be good times for Europe how about 117 AD when half of Europe was part of the Roman empire?
    As to Russian intrerests the Black sea fleet was never in any danger but if national intersets are all that count, your previous post about Guantanamo which was very weak and off point just got destroyed by this post.
    You cant argue 2 sides at the same time and expect anyone except Kool-ade drinkers to take you seriously.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Thanks for the trolling admission but it really wasn't necessary. My angel ? I'm not religious
    Your not?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I know the history of Guantanamo and it changes nothing, the twisted logic used by those who support Putin`s aggresion could easily be applied to the USA invading and annexing Cuba, there is no difference.
    This goes deep into tinfoil beanie territory doesn't it ? On the one hand its deemed sinister and manipulative for the US to dispense humanitarian aid reconstruction assistence for schools and hospitals, yet on the other its OK for Russian tanks and artillery to invade ,kill Ukrainians and spread terror . Go figure
    Last edited by flogger; 02-24-15 at 09:24 AM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    This goes deep into tinfoil beanie territory doesn't it ? On the one hand its deemed sinister and manipulative for the US to dispense humanitarian aid reconstruction assistence for schools and hospitals, yet on the other its OK for Russian tanks and artillery to invade ,kill Ukrainians and spread terror . Go figure
    How about a report from a Washington political insider, Sen. Ron Paul.
    Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International
    "Commenting on events leading up to the coup in a column on his website on Sunday, Dr. Paul noted that the coup "was not only supported by US and EU governments – much of it was actually planned by them." The former congressman added that while Ukraine was a deeply divided country prior to the coup, "it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation." Paul lamented that the "interventionist project" on the part of political forces inside the US and the EU turned a very difficult situation into a disaster and "full-out civil war" for Ukraine."
    "Dr. Paul describes how, as the political and economic crisis in Ukraine advanced in 2013, "a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating" in protests calling "for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government." He recalls the leaked phone conversation featuring Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland chatting with the US Ambassador to Ukraine about who would and would not enter the new Ukrainian government. Noting the hypocrisy and outright absurdity of it all, the former congressman asks his readers rhetorically to "imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!"

    Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

    Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    This goes deep into tinfoil beanie territory doesn't it ? On the one hand its deemed sinister and manipulative for the US to dispense humanitarian aid reconstruction assistence for schools and hospitals, yet on the other its OK for Russian tanks and artillery to invade ,kill Ukrainians and spread terror . Go figure
    Of course it is because the USA is bad, and everyone else is good, unelss they support the USA.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

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