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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Nor did I say other wise, but nothing a I said was either.

    Invade? Russian troops have always been stationed in Crimea since 1991 per agreement.
    When they left their bases without their insignia or other and took over control of civilian Ukrainian parts of Crimea they WERE invading, followed by annexation.
    So yeah they INVADED and continue to do so in eastern Ukraine.
    I will ask you again
    How does an internal Ukrainian situation give Putin the right to secretly invade and annex part of another country?
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I'm more than happy to let others be the judge of that based on your input to date so perhaps you should stop digging.
    I am happy with everyone else judging each and all of our comments, as that is cool.




    =========================================


    I know the difference between the two words, but trying to claim that both words are the same is the problem, as in claiming a person's opinion to be the facts is mixing those two definitions together when they are rightfully separate.

    We all have the same facts and we just put our own interpretation of the facts and that makes them into opinions.

    Even an "expert opinion" is still just an opinion based on the facts.

    In this case for this thread then I like the OPINION of the Russian Republic in that their OPINION is that they are not going to be bullied by the USA.

    And this does NOT mean that I am against my own USA, no, as I really wish that our USA would stop acting like the Bully of the world, and then we would have a better USA and a better world.

    And yes of course that is just my own sincere OPINION indeed, and I wish that the USA would stop following the nasty opinions of the many American warmongers.


    =========================================


    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    When they left their bases without their insignia or other and took over control of civilian Ukrainian parts of Crimea they WERE invading, followed by annexation.
    So yeah they INVADED and continue to do so in eastern Ukraine.
    I will ask you again
    How does an internal Ukrainian situation give Putin the right to secretly invade and annex part of another country?
    That is because Russia has a vested interest in the Ukraine, including long standing historical ties, and a long connected border between the two Countries, and a huge connection with Russian people in the Ukraine.

    It is the USA and Western Europe who are treading where they do not belong.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    That is because Russia has a vested interest in the Ukraine, including long standing historical ties, and a long connected border between the two Countries, and a huge connection with Russian people in the Ukraine.
    Over 90 % of the Ukrainian people made it clear that their enthusiasm for pursuing Russias vested interests had changed in 1991. I know from my personal experience there over the years that that mindset has not changed

    It is the USA and Western Europe who are treading where they do not belong.
    As ever please present your evidence for this unwanted 'treading' and address what the bulk Ukrainians want which is EU membership ?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    That is because Russia has a vested interest in the Ukraine, including long standing historical ties, and a long connected border between the two Countries, and a huge connection with Russian people in the Ukraine.
    A "vested interest" does not include any right to invade, annex, and destabilize a sovereign state.


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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Over 90 % of the Ukrainian people made it clear that their enthusiasm for pursuing Russias vested interests had changed in 1991. I know from my personal experience there over the years that that mindset has not changed

    As ever please present your evidence for this unwanted 'treading' and address what the bulk Ukrainians want which is EU membership ?
    It is Russia (and Putin) who does not want that treading.

    And I really see this as self evident, because there would not be a "crisis" otherwise.

    And I realize that you want to argue from the Ukrainian position but I say it is no longer their decision, as this is now just a dispute between the USA and Russia and everyone else is on the sidelines.

    That is why you are asking for evidence which does not exist because it is not a matter about whatever the Ukrainians want, and that is because the Ukraine made itself irrelevant by bringing in the USA to stand in hostility against Russia.


    ==================================================


    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    A "vested interest" does not include any right to invade, annex, and destabilize a sovereign state.
    That is your opinion, and maybe it is the opinion of the US gov, but Russia says otherwise, and the Russian opinion rules that issue.

    Since Russia declares that is their interest then it is.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    That is your opinion, and maybe it is the opinion of the US gov, but Russia says otherwise, and the Russian opinion rules that issue.
    Russia signed this international document...

    Article 2

    1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
    Charter of the United Nations


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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Russia signed this international document...

    Charter of the United Nations
    You fail to tell if we the USA signed that too, as if we the USA are some how excluded from the equation or from the discussion.

    I do not see how that charter affects only Russia.

    And apparently if Russia signed it and Russia is engaged in the Ukraine as it is THEN then Russia must not see any contradiction there or elsewhere.

    If we look at the title of this thread then it is the Russian President Putin who is making the peace proposal for the Ukraine, and such peace is the point and purpose on the UN Charter - IMO.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    That is because Russia has a vested interest in the Ukraine, including long standing historical ties, and a long connected border between the two Countries, and a huge connection with Russian people in the Ukraine.

    It is the USA and Western Europe who are treading where they do not belong.
    So if a country has had close ties with a neighbour they can invade and annex part of their neighbours country?
    Is that your actual argument?
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    You fail to tell if we the USA signed that too, as if we the USA are some how excluded from the equation or from the discussion.
    You yourself brought up Russia's "vested interest", and you received a direct reply to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    I do not see how that charter affects only Russia.
    No one said it did.

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    And apparently if Russia signed it and Russia is engaged in the Ukraine as it is THEN then Russia must not see any contradiction there or elsewhere.
    The majority of UN member states noted the contradiction ... UN Resolution 68/262.

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    If we look at the title of this thread then it is the Russian President Putin who is making the peace proposal for the Ukraine, and such peace is the point and purpose on the UN Charter - IMO.
    I authored this thread, and no one accepted the self-serving proposal that Putin advanced.


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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    I authored this thread, and no one accepted the self-serving proposal that Putin advanced.
    I do not quite get who you mean when you say that no one accepts the Putin peace proposal, because the powerful Republic of Russia is far from being no one and they accept it.

    Plus there is now a peace plan in effect created by Russia along with Germany and France while the USA is not included in any talks of PEACE.

    But I did go back to your opening post and now I recognize that the link report comes from a site called "The Moscow Times" and that meant nothing to me at first but later in this thread that News source had been discredited as Western propaganda and THAT figures.

    As such I found a related link in the Yahoo News which is here = 40,000 attend Moscow pro-Putin rally - "Yankee go home"
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