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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    From Der Spiegel which is one of the best at investigative journalism in the world.

    Good article on why Russia has a major issue with whats going on.

    Another one to drive the point home.


    Since 1990 NATO has expanded towards Russian borders. Putin in 2008 drew a line in the sand that Ukraine and Georgia was untouchable and ANY attempt to influence them would cause a reaction from Russia.
    And if the Ukraine had been just about to join the NATO alliance you might have a valid point. If NATO or the US wanted the Ukraine in the alliance so badly it could have had it for free 20 years ago with Russia in no position to do anything about it

    Why wait till now ?
    Last edited by flogger; 02-12-15 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    From Der Spiegel which is one of the best at investigative journalism in the world.

    Good article on why Russia has a major issue with whats going on.

    Another one to drive the point home.


    Since 1990 NATO has expanded towards Russian borders. Putin in 2008 drew a line in the sand that Ukraine and Georgia was untouchable and ANY attempt to influence them would cause a reaction from Russia.
    Spot on.

    The US can act effectively in Ukraine only with the agreement of Germany and other EU states. In today’s increasingly complex world, its only superpower is no longer all-powerful and must act in consultation with others. Its waning political power and plummeting moral authority are imposing serious constraints on its still-formidable military capability—Pax Americana no longer rules.

    In this context Germany, under Merkel’s canny leadership, has quietly emerged as a counterweight to the US, in both the EU and NATO. Germany did not support the abortive US-sponsored NATO intervention in Libya in 2011 and it opposed US attempts last year to have NATO endorse Obama’s Iraq intervention against Islamic State. When Merkel was in Australia for the G20 summit in November she said publicly that, for her, war is not an option. Patient negotiation is the only way forward, including with Putin.

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/open-s...foreign-policy
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Spot on.
    And had the Ukraine been about to join NATO it would be

    Only problem with this strawman argument is that it wasn't
    Last edited by flogger; 02-12-15 at 07:54 PM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I haven't disputed that the ban isn't universally accepted.

    The Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM) is an international treaty that prohibits the use, transfer and stockpile of cluster bombs, a type of explosive weapon which scatters submunitions ("bomblets") over an area. The convention was adopted on 30 May 2008 in Dublin,[6] and was opened for signature on 3 December 2008 in Oslo. It entered into force on 1 August 2010, six months after it was ratified by 30 states.[2] As of January 2015, 108 states have signed the treaty and 89 have ratified it or acceded to it.[3]
    Hopefully you are able to make the next logical link then to stop saying 'banned' weapons as they are not in the countries deploying them (or at least disclaimer your comments with that information). Clearly if a certain thing is banned in one country and not in another, the latter country would not refer to it as a 'banned' thing within their own country, and nor would the former refer to it as a banned thing in the latter country.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yep, whatever happened to the virtue of self detemination? A little hypocrisy huh.
    You people really need to stop with your proven lies, aren't you embarrassed of the continuous pwning? The overwhelming majority of Eastern Ukrainians are ethnically Ukraine, even in Donetsk and Luhansk the majority of citizens are Ukrainian not Russian, the referendums were completely fraudulent as they were held after the Russian terrorists turned them into armed camps ruled by fear and murder. And if you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 60% ethnic Russian population voted for annexation by Russia then I have a really good deal for you on a bridge in Brooklyn.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    From Der Spiegel which is one of the best at investigative journalism in the world.

    Good article on why Russia has a major issue with whats going on.

    Another one to drive the point home.


    Since 1990 NATO has expanded towards Russian borders. Putin in 2008 drew a line in the sand that Ukraine and Georgia was untouchable and ANY attempt to influence them would cause a reaction from Russia.
    The EU is not NATO, the RF waged economic warfare against the Ukraine prompting EUROMAIDAN because they were attempting to join the EU trading association over the laughable customs union of Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Russia, not the NATO defense pact.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    The EU is not NATO, the RF waged economic warfare against the Ukraine prompting EUROMAIDAN because they were attempting to join the EU trading association over the laughable customs union of Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Russia, not the NATO defense pact.
    It doesn't matter what you say they won't be convinced. It doesn't matter that the US has made no diplomatic overtures to Ukraine about potential NATO membership, nor that the other Eastern European nations who asked to join had fairly legitimate security concerns of their own after 45 years of Soviet oppression. Those concerns now amply realised given Russia's current actions against a non aligned neighbour. All that matters is the demonization of the US anyway and anyhow. Its really sad

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    You people really need to stop with your proven lies, aren't you embarrassed of the continuous pwning? The overwhelming majority of Eastern Ukrainians are ethnically Ukraine, even in Donetsk and Luhansk the majority of citizens are Ukrainian not Russian, the referendums were completely fraudulent as they were held after the Russian terrorists turned them into armed camps ruled by fear and murder. And if you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 60% ethnic Russian population voted for annexation by Russia then I have a really good deal for you on a bridge in Brooklyn.
    Western propaganda!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    The EU is not NATO, the RF waged economic warfare against the Ukraine prompting EUROMAIDAN because they were attempting to join the EU trading association over the laughable customs union of Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Russia, not the NATO defense pact.
    Everybody knows the difference between NATO and the European Union. Your false characterisation of Russia's negotiations with Ukraine diminish your argument. Ukraine applied and subsequently withdrew their application to join NATO. They negotiated with the EU and Russia on economic alliance and chose Russia in the end, that is where the West and face, your got their knickers in a knot. Deal with it because Russia drew their line.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 02-13-15 at 10:09 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Everybody knows the difference between NATO and the European Union. Your false characterisation of Russia's negotiations with Ukraine diminish your argument. Ukraine applied and subsequently withdrew their application to join NATO. They negotiated with the EU and Russia on economic alliance and chose Russia in the end, that is where the West and face, your got their knickers in a knot. Deal with it because Russia drew their line.
    BS stop lying.
    Putin bribed coerced Yanukovych to refuse Euromaidan and insted try to seek closer ties to Russia. His own party ousted him and he fled to Russia.
    When Putin had failed to get Ukraine this way he invaided using tropps who had removed their insignia, denying it for weeks until he had full control.
    It had nothing to do with the US and everything to do with Putin.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

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