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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

  1. #41
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    No Ukraine is the business of Ukraine .... not Russia
    It is NOT the business of the USA and THAT is the POINT.

    Russia is on the physical border of the Ukraine and proximity matters, just as the USA is way far away on the opposite side of the planet.

    If Russia was trying to stir up hostilities in Mexico then the USA has a vested interest with our own neighboring Country.

    Whatever happens in the Ukraine is rightfully the business of Russia and absolutely NOTHING will change that glaring reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    But what if Ukrainians of their own free will actually want closer integration with the West. Have you ever considered that ?
    I have considered that and no the Ukraine has no right and no business seeking nor accepting any hostilities from a foreign power as in the USA against Russia.

    To do so is outrageous, and Russia is correct to react with military force and I am certain that Russia will escalate to the maximum - and rightly so.

    When the USA had our neighboring Country of Cuba making its alliance with the USSR then the USA threatened nuclear war under the terms of mutual assured destruction.

    If America doubts the resolve of Russia in the Ukraine then we are playing a fool who could get us all killed in lightning speed.
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Cusick View Post
    It is NOT the business of the USA and THAT is the POINT.
    It is Russian boots on the ground not American. It is Russian weapons that are being used not American

    Russia is on the physical border of the Ukraine and proximity matters, just as the USA is way far away on the opposite side of the planet.
    It is Russia and not America that is in direct violation of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum guaranteeing Ukraines sovereignty and the integrity of its borders if it handed its nukes back to Russia for disposal. Ukraine upheld its end of the bargain

    If Russia was trying to stir up hostilities in Mexico then the USA has a vested interest with our own neighboring Country.
    Do you have evidence that Washington paid the protesters to face down Yanukovych's guns ?

    Whatever happens in the Ukraine is rightfully the business of Russia and absolutely NOTHING will change that glaring reality.
    Russia has had no such right since 1991. It is also in fundamental breach of the UN charter by taking this unilateral action. Thats the glaring reality

    I have considered that and no the Ukraine has no right and no business seeking nor accepting any hostilities from a foreign power as in the USA against Russia.
    Really ? And when did the US get Ukraine to attack Russia ! What if the Ukrainians don't care what you want and vote to join western institutions anyway ? What then ? Are you trying to suggest they have no right to in case it offends Russia ?

    If America doubts the resolve of Russia in the Ukraine then we are playing a fool who could get us all killed in lightning speed.
    I'm pretty sure the current US administration would be far happier if this whole conflict just went away. Your endless demonization of the US when its Russian boots and weapons that are on the ground and doing the killing is frankly incomprehensible

    Hard evidence, the regular Russian army invades Ukraine | Conflict Report
    Last edited by flogger; 01-26-15 at 01:44 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    And what does that mean? Apartheid regime? Dividing citizens on good ones, who votes for good parties, and bad ones, who can vote for bad parties (and hence must be deprived of civil rights)? Nice opinion.
    Exactly. Thus why allowing the East to go to Russia might actually help.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #44
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Exactly. Thus why allowing the East to go to Russia might actually help.
    The problem there is that only 38% of those living in the contested areas of Donetsk and Luhansk are ethnic Russians so Putin would most likely lose any legitimate referendum on annexation.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    The problem there is that only 38% of those living in the contested areas of Donetsk and Luhansk are ethnic Russians so Putin would most likely lose any legitimate referendum on annexation.
    You emphasized several times you've been in Ukraine, you kinda expert. But you're so naive. You don't understand elementary things about Ukraine and Russia. Such as, for example, that any official figures of ethnical identification don't work directly. Self-defined nationality in the case of eastern part of former Ukraine doesn't mean some boundary that may determine political or social opinion. In cultural sense Russians and Ukrainians of Donbass are the same. You can't distinct them. Even more, the same people may call themselves both Ukrainians and Russians in different situations.

    If you really understood people deeply, you would wonder why Slavyansk, the city with high percent of Ukrainian population became the center of rebellion.

    And by the way, in Crimea Ukrainians are about quarter of population, not 2 percent as you said above.

  6. #46
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    The problem there is that only 38% of those living in the contested areas of Donetsk and Luhansk are ethnic Russians so Putin would most likely lose any legitimate referendum on annexation.
    Maybe, but they've been unable to hold any kind of legitimate election in Ukraine since the USSR packed up and left. No matter who wins, the losers just have a "revolt." Clearly that 38% has enough clout to win elections from time to time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #47
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    You emphasized several times you've been in Ukraine, you kinda expert.
    I've certainly never claimed that I'm an expert, just someone who's been there a lot and observed a lot too

    And by the way, in Crimea Ukrainians are about quarter of population, not 2 percent as you said above.
    No you've misread that. I claimed the Crimea represented 2% of Ukraines overall population. In fact Crimea oblast has a 58% ethnic Russian population. The only region in the country where they outnumber Ukrainians

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Infowars has a short clip from Ukraine, and a fast walking soldier in a Ukranian uniform speaks American English to the reporter, asking her to 'stay out of my face, please'. Probably just a Blackwater mercenary, but certainly an American carrying an AK.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Infowars has a short clip from Ukraine, and a fast walking soldier in a Ukranian uniform speaks American English to the reporter, asking her to 'stay out of my face, please'. Probably just a Blackwater mercenary, but certainly an American carrying an AK.
    Funny how these clumsy mercs always seem to break cover near TV cameras doesn't it ?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Funny how these clumsy mercs always seem to break cover near TV cameras doesn't it ?
    The guy was in a pretty big hurry, walking somewhere. Clearly the lady with the microphone and her cameraman were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Or, maybe he was mad because HE was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

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