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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The data strongly suggests that the number of Russian-speakers is much higher than the number who declared themselves to be ethnic Russian. The only practical way to interpret this anomaly is that a significant number of Russian-speakers consider themselves to be ethnic Ukrainian. Thus, although Russian is the majority language, the ethnic majority is Ukrainian.
    There are many ways to explain that, but I can't look inside people's heads. Fact is that the conflict in Ukraine is a lot more complicated and Messy and less of a black and white story then Some would like to make out.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh sure Russia had cronies just as Western nations did, I would never deny that. Everybody was working their angle. The protesters were Ukrainians, not Alabamans, but they were a couple hundred thousand, they didn't speak for 43,000,000 Ukrainians, A and B, driving the president from his office and firing upon his motorcade as he fled for his life is hardly the democratic model that you espouse else where's. Would you have supported an angry mob of half a million Americans driving Bush out of the WH and firing upon his motorcade as he fled because of the anger that there was over his lies surrounding the Iraq war and our senseless loss of blood and treasure? Hmm
    I'd of supported it if Bush was a cronies for another country. In my book, that counts as a treason.

    I've asked others this, but I'm specifically addressing you with this because you have demonstrated that while we may disagree on a wide range of topics, you are at least fair minded for the most part and have shown intelligence in your post. I have proposed a compromise to this whole Ukrainian mess that I think is the only way to end the conflict and that is to break up Ukraine, have Russia do whatever it wants with the East and allow the West to join with NATO. If Russia really is concerned with it's counterparts in the region, then this gets them out from the rule of Kiev. On the other hand, if this is just Putin flexing Russian Military might, this puts a stop to the conflict unless Putin wants to expand this into a much larger conflict.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    Look it up on the Wikipedia page on Ukraine if you don't believe me.
    The way people are polarized about this conflict in a way that they want to disregard any facts that don't fit their narratieve is pretty sad.
    You are the one who is ignoring the facts which is why you won't address my posts directly, the wikipedia statistics have been provided in full, the overwhelming majority of Eastern Ukrainians speak Ukrainian, the majority of Eastern Ukrainians are ethnically Ukrainian not Russian even two of the most ethnically Russian Oblasts of Luhansk and Donetsk are majority ethnic Ukrainians not Russian. But continue on with your denial of the facts which have been presented to you time and time again.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    Splitting the Ukraine is not a good idea. And to have part of Ukraine join NATO would be folly. NATO members should be Stable democracies, not failed states.
    Look at the alternative: what's to stop Russia right now from continue to push and cost tens of thousands of lives until he's already effectively in control of Eastern Ukraine? Or, best case scenario, Kiev manages to push the rebels back into Russia and we'll just have those rebels continue to strike from the safety of Russia's borders? Given the choices, I think splitting up Ukraine is not just the only way to resolve this peacefully, but also to save lives.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I'd of supported it if Bush was a cronies for another country. In my book, that counts as a treason.

    I've asked others this, but I'm specifically addressing you with this because you have demonstrated that while we may disagree on a wide range of topics, you are at least fair minded for the most part and have shown intelligence in your post. I have proposed a compromise to this whole Ukrainian mess that I think is the only way to end the conflict and that is to break up Ukraine, have Russia do whatever it wants with the East and allow the West to join with NATO. If Russia really is concerned with it's counterparts in the region, then this gets them out from the rule of Kiev. On the other hand, if this is just Putin flexing Russian Military might, this puts a stop to the conflict unless Putin wants to expand this into a much larger conflict.
    Much better to maintain Ukraine As it is now (that is without Crimea and Sevastopol) and turn it into a Federalized and neutralized state.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    There are many ways to explain that, but I can't look inside people's heads.
    Explain the fact that the majority of Eastern Ukrainians are ethnically Ukrainian not Russian.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    Much better to maintain Ukraine As it is now (that is without Crimea and Sevastopol) and turn it into a Federalized and neutralized state.
    No not much better to recognize the war crime of the annexation of the Crimea as legitimate, better to continue sanctions against Russia until they're back sitting in bread lines until they end their illegal occupation.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    You are the one who is ignoring the facts which is why you won't address my posts directly, the wikipedia statistics have been provided in full, the overwhelming majority of Eastern Ukrainians speak Ukrainian, the majority of Eastern Ukrainians are ethnically Ukrainian not Russian even two of the most ethnically Russian Oblasts of Luhansk and Donetsk are majority ethnic Ukrainians not Russian. But continue on with your denial of the facts which have been presented to you time and time again.
    Your statement that the overwhelming majority of people in the Eastern Ukraine are Ukranian speakers is simply a lie. The moderators seem not to be interested in calming you down. For the record, you are Nothing but a propagandistic liar and I refuse to debate with people who can't face the facts.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    Your statement that the overwhelming majority of people in the Eastern Ukraine are Ukranian speakers is simply a lie. The moderators seem not to be interested in calming you down. For the record, you are Nothing but a propagandistic liar and refuse to debate with people who can't face the facts.
    You sir are the propagandist and the liar, I have provided the statistics proving that the majority of Eastern Ukrainians are ethnically Ukrainian, you laughably provided the two examples of Luhansk and Donetsk only to be shown that those are both majority ethnically Ukrainian you can't address this point and will continue deflecting but everyone on this forum can see for themselves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    Much better to maintain Ukraine As it is now (that is without Crimea and Sevastopol) and turn it into a Federalized and neutralized state.
    You're never going to have it be a Neutral state. I'm telling you, either the Russians move in and take as much of the Ukraine as they please or the Ukrainians beat them back to the border of Russia, where either the Russians officially get involved or simply passively support the rebels and give them cover behind their borders. If you see another way, I'd love to hear it.

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