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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    The facts are that the 2001 census clearly shows that about 75% of the population of the Donetsk region are "native Russian speakers" and about 70% of the Luhansk region.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Both of these info-graphs are compiled from the 2001 Ukraine Census data. The next Ukraine Census is scheduled for 2016.

    Language - Aggregate data: Ukrainian Language/67% | Russian language/30%


    Language data from the 2001 Census. Orange = Ukrainian language | Blue = Russian language. Courtesy: Wikipedia

    Ethnicity - Aggregate data: Ukrainian ethnicity/77.5% | Russian ethnicity/17.2%


    Ethnic Ukrainians in Ukraine by oblast 2001 census. Courtesy: Wikipedia


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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Both of these info-graphs are compiled from the 2001 Ukraine Census data. The next Ukraine Census is scheduled for 2016.

    Language - Aggregate data: Ukrainian Language/67% | Russian language/30%


    Language data from the 2001 Census. Orange = Ukrainian language | Blue = Russian language. Courtesy: Wikipedia

    Ethnicity - Aggregate data: Ukrainian ethnicity/77.5% | Russian ethnicity/17.2%


    Ethnic Ukrainians in Ukraine by oblast 2001 census. Courtesy: Wikipedia
    Why didn't you post the map of "native russian speakers"?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    The facts are that the 2001 census clearly shows that about 75% of the population of the Donetsk region are "native Russian speakers" and about 70% of the Luhansk region.

    You just don't want to know that nearly all Ukrainians can speak Russian fluently ? You seem to think repetition will make your assertions correct however many posters show you they aren't. In that respect you are certainly not alone here sadly

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    You just don't want to know you ? You seem to think repetition will make your assertions correct however many posters show you they aren't. In that respect you are certainly not alone here sadly
    Look it up on the Wikipedia page on Ukraine if you don't believe me.
    The way people are polarized about this conflict in a way that they want to disregard any facts that don't fit their narratieve is pretty sad.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    Look it up on the Wikipedia page on Ukraine if you don't believe me.
    The way people are polarized about this conflict in a way that they want to disregard any facts that don't fit their narratieve is pretty sad.
    I've been to Ukraine many times my friend and they nearly all can speak Russian fluently. That doesn't automatically mean they all want to be Russian which seems to be the point you are driving at

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    There are far too many here (based on US conduct over the last 15 years), prepared to find the US guilty until proven innocent. They've let their domestic cynicism blind their objectivity and thats very much the case with this whole Ukrainian business. This is now and always has been Russia's game not Americas. If the US really wanted Ukraine as badly as is alleged ,she could have gotten it for free 20 years ago when a bankrupt militarily prostrate Russia led by a drunk was in a far weaker position than today.
    As much as some on here may want to believe, the US hasn't been in the game to "take over" countries, especially in Europe. If that was something we really wanted to do, we could of been in control of all of Europe between the Marshall Plan and the Fall of the Soviet Union. But we didn't, because we believe in letting these countries go off on their own power. The issue with Ukraine though I believe is that at this point, the best compromise is to split the Ukraine and have Western Ukraine join NATO. At that point, if Russia is really on a bender to take over Europe again, then they'd have to War with the West to do it. And on the other hand, they get to protect the ethnic Russians in the process.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I've been to Ukraine many times my friend and they nearly all can speak Russian fluently. That doesn't automatically mean they all want to be Russian which seems to be the point you are driving at
    I am not driving at any point. The term "native speaker" does mean something. Does it mean that everybody who is a native Russian speaker wants to be annexed by Russia? Of course not. But what is equally ludicrous is the attempt by Some to assert that there are no regional differences in the Ukraine, that all of the Ukranian population support the current government in Kiev and there is no native rebellion in the East.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    As much as some on here may want to believe, the US hasn't been in the game to "take over" countries, especially in Europe. If that was something we really wanted to do, we could of been in control of all of Europe between the Marshall Plan and the Fall of the Soviet Union. But we didn't, because we believe in letting these countries go off on their own power. The issue with Ukraine though I believe is that at this point, the best compromise is to split the Ukraine and have Western Ukraine join NATO. At that point, if Russia is really on a bender to take over Europe again, then they'd have to War with the West to do it. And on the other hand, they get to protect the ethnic Russians in the process.
    Splitting the Ukraine is not a good idea. And to have part of Ukraine join NATO would be folly. NATO members should be Stable democracies, not failed states.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    The facts are that the 2001 census clearly shows that about 75% of the population of the Donetsk region are "native Russian speakers" and about 70% of the Luhansk region.
    The data strongly suggests that the number of Russian-speakers is much higher than the number who declared themselves to be ethnic Russian. The only practical way to interpret this anomaly is that a significant number of Russian-speakers consider themselves to be ethnic Ukrainian. Thus, although Russian is the majority language, the ethnic majority is Ukrainian.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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