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Thread: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

  1. #391
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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Some of the authors I linked were just as qualified to comment



    But NATO membership was never an issue here. It had never been asked for nor offered to Ukraine so that is a strawman argument



    I care about a smaller nation being attacked by a bigger one for daring to assert its free will in hoping for EU membership . Nothing more
    If I remember correctly Ukraine applied for membership in the 1990s.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If I remember correctly Ukraine applied for membership in the 1990s.
    Here is the history of Ukraine - NATO ties

    Ukraine

    They got close but no formal application to join has ever been agreed upon mostly due to western intransigence it has to be said. Interestingly as of polls taken in November 2014 only 25% of Ukrainians now oppose NATO membership so the war has definately had an effect on public opinion
    Last edited by flogger; 02-11-15 at 06:49 PM.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    If that chunk want to join Russia, fine. Putin can send in planes to fly them to the Motherland. However, destroying Ukraine to join Russia is not a sane way of going about it.
    There you go again. It's the Ukrainian army using banned weapons and killing people.

    (Berlin) Ukrainian government forces used cluster munitions in populated areas in Donetsk city in early October 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes.

    Ukraine: Widespread Use of Cluster Munitions | Human Rights Watch

    I WONDER WHY YOU GUYS SWALLOW THE CAMEL AND CHOKE ON THE FRUIT FLY?????
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Here is the history of Ukraine - NATO ties

    Ukraine

    They got close but no formal application to join has ever been agreed upon mostly due to western intransigence it has to be said
    I would have to read up, but MAP is the procedure new members undergo in order to join Nato. If I remember a European member or two stalled the process.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I would have to read up, but MAP is the procedure new members undergo in order to join Nato. If I remember a European member or two stalled the process.
    Obviously most Ukrainians are uber keen to join now but that seems unlikely in the prevailing circumstances

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Obviously most Ukrainians are uber keen to join now but that seems unlikely in the prevailing circumstances
    letting them in now would be like insuring the while it was burning.

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Obviously most Ukrainians are uber keen to join now but that seems unlikely in the prevailing circumstances


    Since Poroshenko et ak are in with 18% of eligible voters, then it is a given that the same 18% want EU membership.
    What about the other 82%?

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Here is the history of Ukraine - NATO ties

    Ukraine

    They got close but no formal application to join has ever been agreed upon mostly due to western intransigence it has to be said. Interestingly as of polls taken in November 2014 only 25% of Ukrainians now oppose NATO membership so the war has definately had an effect on public opinion
    More of your damn lies. Ukraine did ask, and did apply. The man that Ukraine elected in 2010 decided to align with Russia and withdrew that request. Then the US supported an angry mob of a few hundred thousand in a country of 40 odd million who turned to violence and began to burn government buildings and forced the duly elected president from his office and fired upon his motorcade as he fled for his life. Only morons believe that's democracy, and nobody posting here that supported it would accept it in their own countries. This backfired though, Crimea is gone and as they (the Ukrainian army) continues to do things like use banned weapons like DC cluster bombs, they further loose credibility while Russia gains.

    Relations between Ukraine and North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1994.[1] Ukraine applied to join the NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.[2][3] Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.[4][5] In 2010 the Ukrainian parliament voted to exclude "integration into Euro-Atlantic security and NATO membership" from the country's national security strategy.[6]

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Since Poroshenko et ak are in with 18% of eligible voters, then it is a given that the same 18% want EU membership.
    What about the other 82%?
    Link ?

    Ukraine election 'free and fair', MEP delegation says | EurActiv

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    Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

    More of your damn lies.
    See rule 3 of the Forum posting guidlines.

    Then the US supported an angry mob of a few hundred thousand in a country of 40 odd million who turned to violence and began to burn government buildings and forced the duly elected president from his office and fired upon his motorcade as he fled for his life.
    For the umpteenth time now. Prove the US financed these protesters to overthrow their government ?

    Only morons believe that's democracy, and nobody posting here that supported it would accept it in their own countries.
    There have been two internationally monitored elections since that time and the result didn't go your way even had the 9% of Ukrainians living in the contested areas had been allowed to vote

    Relations between Ukraine and North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1994.[1] Ukraine applied to join the NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.[2][3] Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.[4][5] In 2010 the Ukrainian parliament voted to exclude "integration into Euro-Atlantic security and NATO membership" from the country's national security strategy.[6]

    Ukraine
    Obviously looking at public opinion today Yanukovych got that one way wrong along with just about everything else that got him toppled
    MAP enquiry is a long way short of a formal application for NATO membership which has to get the approval of all member states before consideration. In Ukraines case this would have been unlikely even in 2008
    Last edited by flogger; 02-11-15 at 08:16 PM.

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